I think i now understand 993 owners...
Discussion
Purchased a mk1 mx5 today - competely old school.
Have to say the weighting of the steering and the gear box is awesome!
I can see why 993 owners love old school motoring - i absolutely love the mx5 and the 993 is obviously another few leagues above,
Seriously fantastic car and i've owned some really decent performance cars in my time - if my feelings stay the same the 996 will be sold and the mx5 (track toy) will stay with the m3.
You don't need power to have fun if a car is engaging at low speeds - driving it genuinely made me laugh out loud as points - never thought i'd say that !
Something very thrilling about red lining a car with so much feedback and then seeing you're still below prison food 'speed'. I'm now going to work on my rev matching and heel / toe techniques ahead of hopefully a good track season in 2013 !
Have to say the weighting of the steering and the gear box is awesome!
I can see why 993 owners love old school motoring - i absolutely love the mx5 and the 993 is obviously another few leagues above,
Seriously fantastic car and i've owned some really decent performance cars in my time - if my feelings stay the same the 996 will be sold and the mx5 (track toy) will stay with the m3.
You don't need power to have fun if a car is engaging at low speeds - driving it genuinely made me laugh out loud as points - never thought i'd say that !
Something very thrilling about red lining a car with so much feedback and then seeing you're still below prison food 'speed'. I'm now going to work on my rev matching and heel / toe techniques ahead of hopefully a good track season in 2013 !
A strange post.
The MX5 is great back to basics fun car, but I don't see much comparison with the 993. They are totally different.
But I get your basic point. It took me about 20 years before I realised that chasing power was folly.
It's fun that matters.
The MX5 is great back to basics fun car, but I don't see much comparison with the 993. They are totally different.
But I get your basic point. It took me about 20 years before I realised that chasing power was folly.
It's fun that matters.
Edited by mollytherocker on Saturday 22 December 23:47
mollytherocker said:
A strange post.
The MX5 is great back to basics fun car, but I don't see much comparison with the 993. They are totally different.
But I get your basic point. It took me about 20 years before I realised that chasing power was folly.
It's fun that matters.
It's not strange, i think if you read it back it would make more sense - suspect you just glanced over it despite my riveting writing style !?The MX5 is great back to basics fun car, but I don't see much comparison with the 993. They are totally different.
But I get your basic point. It took me about 20 years before I realised that chasing power was folly.
It's fun that matters.
Edited by mollytherocker on Saturday 22 December 23:47
David W. said:
would not an early Boxster also do the job?
dw
The beauty of the mx-5 is how cheap it all is and how old school it is.dw
A boxster is not so old school, would cost the same to run as a 996 and the engines are made out of chocolate imho (like my 996) - wouldn't fancy tracking a boxster.
That said, i am now intrigued into what a mid-engine car would feel like to drive!
steve singh said:
The beauty of the mx-5 is how cheap it all is and how old school it is.
A boxster is not so old school, would cost the same to run as a 996 and the engines are made out of chocolate imho (like my 996) - wouldn't fancy tracking a boxster.
That said, i am now intrigued into what a mid-engine car would feel like to drive!
If you like the Mx-5, you would love a caterhamA boxster is not so old school, would cost the same to run as a 996 and the engines are made out of chocolate imho (like my 996) - wouldn't fancy tracking a boxster.
That said, i am now intrigued into what a mid-engine car would feel like to drive!
mollytherocker said:
A strange post.
The MX5 is great back to basics fun car, but I don't see much comparison with the 993. They are totally different.
But I get your basic point. It took me about 20 years before I realised that chasing power was folly.
It's fun that matters.
+1,000,000 on the 'fun' point.The MX5 is great back to basics fun car, but I don't see much comparison with the 993. They are totally different.
But I get your basic point. It took me about 20 years before I realised that chasing power was folly.
It's fun that matters.
Edited by mollytherocker on Saturday 22 December 23:47
I find this an odd post as well. It reads a bit like early MX5 = old school. Then, since 993 also = old school, it follows that MX5 gives understanding of 993. Surely it also means that you understand 964 and earlier, old school ferrari, etc, etc. Or you bought a bottle of the daily telegraph's number one wine recommendation and can suddenly understand the thinking of someone with a cellar full of vintage wines...
I do know what the OP means but I don't think there is much more than the technology of the age common between the two.
I do know what the OP means but I don't think there is much more than the technology of the age common between the two.
I get the point but I don't think it's about 'old school' in itself.
I've had a few kit cars that were a scream to drive and I gues the mx5 is an interesting compromise between usability and that light weight theme.
Toyota have got the GT86 which is deliberately engineered to have low limits and be predictable ...so being a laugh to drive.
If old school is best, we'd all drive beetles !
I reckon it's about vehicle weight, calibration of controls (and the feedback that brings), power delivery characteristics and, predictability in handling.... And how extreme the limits are (lower limits make all the rest less important)
My motorbike is a bigger thrill than my Porsche (but it's very intense), my kit cars were more fun (very accessible fun).... What's special about my 996 is how it is so good at everything (even if other cars better it in individual areas).
I'm toying with the idea of an Elise as an alternative to the GSXR, what puts me off (at the moment) is they have very high limits, and versions I've driven hard in the past have had quite a sharp transition from gentle slide (low levels of oversteer) to very fast spins. My 996 breaks away far more slowly, but you do then feel the weight holding it there, and there is a kind of 'floaty' / 'balancing' sensation where you feel you have to give the chassis a chance to settle before tidying it back up again.
I reckon the brilliance in the mx5 is you can be at 10/10ths for large chunks of time and you can feel it working (chassis wise) at lower commitment levels.
A great buy as a fun car.
I've had a few kit cars that were a scream to drive and I gues the mx5 is an interesting compromise between usability and that light weight theme.
Toyota have got the GT86 which is deliberately engineered to have low limits and be predictable ...so being a laugh to drive.
If old school is best, we'd all drive beetles !
I reckon it's about vehicle weight, calibration of controls (and the feedback that brings), power delivery characteristics and, predictability in handling.... And how extreme the limits are (lower limits make all the rest less important)
My motorbike is a bigger thrill than my Porsche (but it's very intense), my kit cars were more fun (very accessible fun).... What's special about my 996 is how it is so good at everything (even if other cars better it in individual areas).
I'm toying with the idea of an Elise as an alternative to the GSXR, what puts me off (at the moment) is they have very high limits, and versions I've driven hard in the past have had quite a sharp transition from gentle slide (low levels of oversteer) to very fast spins. My 996 breaks away far more slowly, but you do then feel the weight holding it there, and there is a kind of 'floaty' / 'balancing' sensation where you feel you have to give the chassis a chance to settle before tidying it back up again.
I reckon the brilliance in the mx5 is you can be at 10/10ths for large chunks of time and you can feel it working (chassis wise) at lower commitment levels.
A great buy as a fun car.
Sometimes you can drift along and get to a point and you get a kind of tango moment. I think that we have drifted from analogue to digital and everybody thinks it's progress because its faster. it's not. Actually learning to drive an analogue car so that you can keep up with charlie big potatoes in his digital masterpiece is a lot more rewarding and a lot more fun. Somewhere along the line most of us have decided that going faster is all that matters and this in itself serves to provide more fun than the sensual overide and interatction of feeling part of a machine. The joy of most digital cars is that they can be enjoyed at all speeds not just at 9/10ths.
I remember demonstrating an MX5 Mk1 for a dealership years ago when I was racing Formula Ford. I had it on opposite lock all the way up from paddock to druids... at about 60mph!. It was just a delight to drive, loads of just fun with a hair dryer engine. Just like an old Lotus Elan. The driver and the car were two halves of a whole. Just like the Elise Mk1 (although that needed a rear ARB in my opinion). The new car is fat and boring. This is not progress, it's sad and it's synical because as always it plays to the lowest common denominator, a driver that wants to go fast but is too bone idle to learn his craft.
Enjoy your little car, it's a beauty..
I remember demonstrating an MX5 Mk1 for a dealership years ago when I was racing Formula Ford. I had it on opposite lock all the way up from paddock to druids... at about 60mph!. It was just a delight to drive, loads of just fun with a hair dryer engine. Just like an old Lotus Elan. The driver and the car were two halves of a whole. Just like the Elise Mk1 (although that needed a rear ARB in my opinion). The new car is fat and boring. This is not progress, it's sad and it's synical because as always it plays to the lowest common denominator, a driver that wants to go fast but is too bone idle to learn his craft.
Enjoy your little car, it's a beauty..
Steve Rance said:
Sometimes you can drift along and get to a point and you get a kind of tango moment. I think that we have drifted from analogue to digital and everybody thinks it's progress because its faster. it's not. Actually learning to drive an analogue car so that you can keep up with charlie big potatoes in his digital masterpiece is a lot more rewarding and a lot more fun. Somewhere along the line most of us have decided that going faster is all that matters and this in itself serves to provide more fun than the sensual overide and interatction of feeling part of a machine. The joy of most digital cars is that they can be enjoyed at all speeds not just at 9/10ths.
I remember demonstrating an MX5 Mk1 for a dealership years ago when I was racing Formula Ford. I had it on opposite lock all the way up from paddock to druids... at about 60mph!. It was just a delight to drive, loads of just fun with a hair dryer engine. Just like an old Lotus Elan. The driver and the car were two halves of a whole. Just like the Elise Mk1 (although that needed a rear ARB in my opinion). The new car is fat and boring. This is not progress, it's sad and it's synical because as always it plays to the lowest common denominator, a driver that wants to go fast but is too bone idle to learn his craft.
Enjoy your little car, it's a beauty..
A truly great post.I remember demonstrating an MX5 Mk1 for a dealership years ago when I was racing Formula Ford. I had it on opposite lock all the way up from paddock to druids... at about 60mph!. It was just a delight to drive, loads of just fun with a hair dryer engine. Just like an old Lotus Elan. The driver and the car were two halves of a whole. Just like the Elise Mk1 (although that needed a rear ARB in my opinion). The new car is fat and boring. This is not progress, it's sad and it's synical because as always it plays to the lowest common denominator, a driver that wants to go fast but is too bone idle to learn his craft.
Enjoy your little car, it's a beauty..
Only bit I disagree with is the 'digital cars can be enjoyed at all speeds, not just 9 tenths'... I'm assuming the digital cars are the very electronically advanced modern cars (Nissan skyline etc?)... The only pleasure in them is the speed - it can only be rewarding when it's flattering you. Maybe I'm taking 'digital' to literally?
My bike has limits that exceed my ability (although it has no rider aids). It's a wonderful machine but it's generally too much for me and the road, maybe one ride in 10 are perfect, these rides make me tolerate the rest. Ultimately, something that is lighter, more agile, more manageable will be more fun, most of the time.
This is the unique bit of my 996.... It just works in every respect, fast yet with limits I can play with, refined yet with character, etc etc. I'm so close to buying an Elise but my experience is they're unforgiving at the edge (unlike the mx5 / élan etc). May have a look at a few early mx5's instead or go down the kit route again.
My bike has limits that exceed my ability (although it has no rider aids). It's a wonderful machine but it's generally too much for me and the road, maybe one ride in 10 are perfect, these rides make me tolerate the rest. Ultimately, something that is lighter, more agile, more manageable will be more fun, most of the time.
This is the unique bit of my 996.... It just works in every respect, fast yet with limits I can play with, refined yet with character, etc etc. I'm so close to buying an Elise but my experience is they're unforgiving at the edge (unlike the mx5 / élan etc). May have a look at a few early mx5's instead or go down the kit route again.
Some really good reading on this thread.
Less truly can be more.
Sticking to speed limits on a country road in my 120 bhp Caterham can just be bliss. Aeroscreen on , hearing and feeling the drive train at work. Raw unadulterated pleasurable driving. Not to everyone's tastes I understand , but getting back to basics puts a great smile on my face.
I think a lot of people get lulled into the "must have big bhp" mind set unfortunately.
Less truly can be more.
Sticking to speed limits on a country road in my 120 bhp Caterham can just be bliss. Aeroscreen on , hearing and feeling the drive train at work. Raw unadulterated pleasurable driving. Not to everyone's tastes I understand , but getting back to basics puts a great smile on my face.
I think a lot of people get lulled into the "must have big bhp" mind set unfortunately.
That's the beauty of the MX5, it has that connected feel that you're actually in the car linking the bits together.
You can get 10/10ths in an MX5 quite a lot of the time.
The danger/learning curve is soon missing though. It's too accessible.
Needs to be more challenging to be a keeper for me.
You can get 10/10ths in an MX5 quite a lot of the time.
The danger/learning curve is soon missing though. It's too accessible.
Needs to be more challenging to be a keeper for me.
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