959 Barn find ! !
Discussion
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C314152
This is a rare one according to the advert, so I’m seriously thinking of dipping a toe in, added to which it’s ”a great business opportunity” . . . . . .
Before I cement the deal, I’ve a few questions for the PH massif :
As you can see, this car needs an engine, and this leaves me in quite a predicament. As well as the business opportunities served up by this rare and highly desirable car, I’m thinking of a spot of trackday useage.
Now obviously I’ll be wanting to carry passengers and probably charge them too (all part of the great business plan ) but fully laden, this thing is going to need some serious horsepower. This leaves me with a couple of choices. Either I can take the forced induction route and drop a 996 Turbo engine in, or stick with the easier to modulate (and install) normally aspirated 996/997 GT3 engine.
If I can find a secondhand example of either of these fine engines, what precautions do I need to take before buying ?
As I understand it, at the very least, I need to interrogate their ECUs for rev range 1 & 2 activity. Is it possible to do this with the engine /loom/ecu sat on a wooden pallet, up to my ankles in the contents of every sump of every vehicle that’s passed through the vendors yard over the past twenty odd years and with the proprietors somewhat irate German shepherd (attached to office /caravan drainpipe by an extremely thin piece of string ) watching my every move ?
If by chance I should find any RR 1 or 2 activity, how would this impact on the engine’s value ? Would an engine with overrevs be a wise buy ? or should I steer clear ? If I do buy an engine with Type 2 overrevs, how many hours would I need to leave it on the wooden pallet before using it without fear of it “imploding”.
Taking into account the potential risks involved in buying such an engine, how would one broach the subject of a discount with the vendor ?
I’ll probably build the car myself as I’m hugely talented with a socket set and a screwdriver, but would need to know what battery is best used on a project like this. I’m told the OPC items are” rubbish”, but also that any battery I buy needs to be maintained by use of a conditioner :
Does one rub this on the surface of the battery and rinse it off, or should I pour it into the battery itself ?
I’ll most likely use the car for some Euro hoons, though I suspect its length may preclude use on some of the tighter passes (The Stelvio and the Turini being my primary concerns)
One only need cast one’s mind back to the episode of Top Gear whereby Jezza, Gay (sic) and the Hamster built their own limosene (sic)to see the problems omnipresent when driving such vehicles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_YupAVO8E
Does anyone have the minimum width of these passes to enable me to plan my trip ?
One other issue I forsee, is with my garage. I estimate the car to be nearly 22 feet long. My garage is 17 feet long :
Do you think the car will fit in it ? Or will I need to park it on the street and/or in the garage at the same time )
If I go the Turbo route, (which let’s face it, is more in keeping with how the car left the factory originally) I’m concerned that I won’t be able to hear the engine/exhaust noise, as the engine is going to be some distance from the drivers seat.
Should I :
A. Move the drivers seat to the rear of the car. (which may make the connection of the engine/gearbox controls easier, but driving the car more awkward)
B. Plumb the exhaust to run to the front of the car.
C. Fit an extremely noisy exhaust. (if I do this, which circuits won’t I be able to use the car on ?)
If I’m going to go with C, should I also fit one of these :
If I do fit the above, what will it do to the balance of the car ? Should I fit one of these to balance things out from an aerodynamic perspective ?
Is there a "Cup" version of the above that’s cheaper ?
Is this front splitter likely to get knocked off when I drive over speed ramps ? if so how should I attach it to ensure the speed ramp takes the brunt of the impact and not the car ?
I should add that I have grave concerns about running the Turbo engine as it will require rather a long propshaft to reach the front differential ? On the plus side, I’ve already worked out that the throttle linkage is easy to sort as it’s fly by wire. Does anyone know where I can purchase a longer piece of wire for this ? (Preferably the right colour/s)
Does a fly by wire throttle detract from the driving experience though ?
This also leads us onto the thorny issue of transmissions. I’m wondering if I having bought the project, I should mothball it and wait until a fellow PHer takes his new PDK equipped 991 GT3 RS to Spa and it ends up in an Armco/car interface scenario. Said car will be written off and I could buy the salvage for the engine and PDK ‘box.
Would fitting PDK to a car such as this ruin the driving the driving experience ? As a cr*p/slow driver the last thing I want (or need) is to be remote from the car’s controls when pressing on.
Perhaps I should fit a sequential race ‘box, it seems to work quite well :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW9u7DPWQHw
Or should I just stick with a normal H pattern ‘box ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73MvmT5C-ik
If I go with the H pattern 'box, would I knead to learn to heal and toe to drive like this ? (especially that fancy gearchange stuff at 53 seconds ?)
I’ve at least two other difficult decisions to make : Firstly, what colour should I paint the car. I’m thinking Speed yellow, what are people’s thoughts on this hue ? Does anyone have any pictures of cars in SY that they could post.
The other (more difficult) choice I have to make, is that regarding wheel colours, I’d considered going with Speed Yellow ? Has anyone else tried this before ? Can anyone post pictures of this body/wheel colour combination ?
Are there any checks I should carry out on the car before buying it ? The vendor makes no claims for its authenticity, should I speak to Reading to see if it’s a genuine 959 , and if it is, whether it’s a C16 version too ?
If it’s not a C16 car, how will this impact on its current and future value ? How does the PH Porsche forums car valuation expert value this car ? Is it overpriced like the majority of other Porsche cars in the PH classifieds and indeed every OPC in the UK ?
I think this could be great project, and unlike this :
the end result will be obviously be far more more tasteful and classier.
P.S Please ignore my battery conditioner comment earlier as I've done some research and found out that conditioners are connected up to your battery, apparently they can be plugged in to the mains or even run on solar power. As I understand it they keep the battery in tip top condition all through the Winter when the car's not being used (unlikely with this car)
P.P.S Can anyone tell me which the best battery conditioner is ? there seem to be a two choices :
Is the one with Porsche on it better ?
Once I've finished the project, can anyone recommend a company that can set the suspension up properly ?
And one final question (sorry make that two) I'm not sure what tyres to use, should I stick with an N rated tyre ? If not, I'm told the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are very good, are they available in the correct sizes. ? If they are, can anyone tell me when they'll gain the N rating ? (very sorry, that was three)
Many thanks in advance for your advice, any input is greatly appreciated in this matter.
And finally, Merry Christmas to all PH’ers ! !
This is a rare one according to the advert, so I’m seriously thinking of dipping a toe in, added to which it’s ”a great business opportunity” . . . . . .
Before I cement the deal, I’ve a few questions for the PH massif :
As you can see, this car needs an engine, and this leaves me in quite a predicament. As well as the business opportunities served up by this rare and highly desirable car, I’m thinking of a spot of trackday useage.
Now obviously I’ll be wanting to carry passengers and probably charge them too (all part of the great business plan ) but fully laden, this thing is going to need some serious horsepower. This leaves me with a couple of choices. Either I can take the forced induction route and drop a 996 Turbo engine in, or stick with the easier to modulate (and install) normally aspirated 996/997 GT3 engine.
If I can find a secondhand example of either of these fine engines, what precautions do I need to take before buying ?
As I understand it, at the very least, I need to interrogate their ECUs for rev range 1 & 2 activity. Is it possible to do this with the engine /loom/ecu sat on a wooden pallet, up to my ankles in the contents of every sump of every vehicle that’s passed through the vendors yard over the past twenty odd years and with the proprietors somewhat irate German shepherd (attached to office /caravan drainpipe by an extremely thin piece of string ) watching my every move ?
If by chance I should find any RR 1 or 2 activity, how would this impact on the engine’s value ? Would an engine with overrevs be a wise buy ? or should I steer clear ? If I do buy an engine with Type 2 overrevs, how many hours would I need to leave it on the wooden pallet before using it without fear of it “imploding”.
Taking into account the potential risks involved in buying such an engine, how would one broach the subject of a discount with the vendor ?
I’ll probably build the car myself as I’m hugely talented with a socket set and a screwdriver, but would need to know what battery is best used on a project like this. I’m told the OPC items are” rubbish”, but also that any battery I buy needs to be maintained by use of a conditioner :
Does one rub this on the surface of the battery and rinse it off, or should I pour it into the battery itself ?
I’ll most likely use the car for some Euro hoons, though I suspect its length may preclude use on some of the tighter passes (The Stelvio and the Turini being my primary concerns)
One only need cast one’s mind back to the episode of Top Gear whereby Jezza, Gay (sic) and the Hamster built their own limosene (sic)to see the problems omnipresent when driving such vehicles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa_YupAVO8E
Does anyone have the minimum width of these passes to enable me to plan my trip ?
One other issue I forsee, is with my garage. I estimate the car to be nearly 22 feet long. My garage is 17 feet long :
Do you think the car will fit in it ? Or will I need to park it on the street and/or in the garage at the same time )
If I go the Turbo route, (which let’s face it, is more in keeping with how the car left the factory originally) I’m concerned that I won’t be able to hear the engine/exhaust noise, as the engine is going to be some distance from the drivers seat.
Should I :
A. Move the drivers seat to the rear of the car. (which may make the connection of the engine/gearbox controls easier, but driving the car more awkward)
B. Plumb the exhaust to run to the front of the car.
C. Fit an extremely noisy exhaust. (if I do this, which circuits won’t I be able to use the car on ?)
If I’m going to go with C, should I also fit one of these :
If I do fit the above, what will it do to the balance of the car ? Should I fit one of these to balance things out from an aerodynamic perspective ?
Is there a "Cup" version of the above that’s cheaper ?
Is this front splitter likely to get knocked off when I drive over speed ramps ? if so how should I attach it to ensure the speed ramp takes the brunt of the impact and not the car ?
I should add that I have grave concerns about running the Turbo engine as it will require rather a long propshaft to reach the front differential ? On the plus side, I’ve already worked out that the throttle linkage is easy to sort as it’s fly by wire. Does anyone know where I can purchase a longer piece of wire for this ? (Preferably the right colour/s)
Does a fly by wire throttle detract from the driving experience though ?
This also leads us onto the thorny issue of transmissions. I’m wondering if I having bought the project, I should mothball it and wait until a fellow PHer takes his new PDK equipped 991 GT3 RS to Spa and it ends up in an Armco/car interface scenario. Said car will be written off and I could buy the salvage for the engine and PDK ‘box.
Would fitting PDK to a car such as this ruin the driving the driving experience ? As a cr*p/slow driver the last thing I want (or need) is to be remote from the car’s controls when pressing on.
Perhaps I should fit a sequential race ‘box, it seems to work quite well :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW9u7DPWQHw
Or should I just stick with a normal H pattern ‘box ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73MvmT5C-ik
If I go with the H pattern 'box, would I knead to learn to heal and toe to drive like this ? (especially that fancy gearchange stuff at 53 seconds ?)
I’ve at least two other difficult decisions to make : Firstly, what colour should I paint the car. I’m thinking Speed yellow, what are people’s thoughts on this hue ? Does anyone have any pictures of cars in SY that they could post.
The other (more difficult) choice I have to make, is that regarding wheel colours, I’d considered going with Speed Yellow ? Has anyone else tried this before ? Can anyone post pictures of this body/wheel colour combination ?
Are there any checks I should carry out on the car before buying it ? The vendor makes no claims for its authenticity, should I speak to Reading to see if it’s a genuine 959 , and if it is, whether it’s a C16 version too ?
If it’s not a C16 car, how will this impact on its current and future value ? How does the PH Porsche forums car valuation expert value this car ? Is it overpriced like the majority of other Porsche cars in the PH classifieds and indeed every OPC in the UK ?
I think this could be great project, and unlike this :
the end result will be obviously be far more more tasteful and classier.
P.S Please ignore my battery conditioner comment earlier as I've done some research and found out that conditioners are connected up to your battery, apparently they can be plugged in to the mains or even run on solar power. As I understand it they keep the battery in tip top condition all through the Winter when the car's not being used (unlikely with this car)
P.P.S Can anyone tell me which the best battery conditioner is ? there seem to be a two choices :
Is the one with Porsche on it better ?
Once I've finished the project, can anyone recommend a company that can set the suspension up properly ?
And one final question (sorry make that two) I'm not sure what tyres to use, should I stick with an N rated tyre ? If not, I'm told the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are very good, are they available in the correct sizes. ? If they are, can anyone tell me when they'll gain the N rating ? (very sorry, that was three)
Many thanks in advance for your advice, any input is greatly appreciated in this matter.
And finally, Merry Christmas to all PH’ers ! !
I would definately get Pedro Mugen to do a full drive by inspection.
If the engine is missing I would only be bothered by the type 2 record on the DME print out.
Replacement engine wise an M96 with new PMS OMS and FFS would be a safe bet.
Track day wise it's going to be more entertaining for punters on quality Linglong Widowspec FQ2 - soon to be N rated.
Naturally the Porsche branded CTEK will give an N rated current so I would go with that.
Finally if you can get the car featured in 911 and PW you are more or less guaranteed immunity to depreciation.
Make sure you do a project thread - with pictures.
Merry Christmas
I understand Peter Morgan would be the man to do a pre-purchase inspection.
I'd deffo go that route.
And remember, I doesn't matter what model seems better, buy on condition.
Im sure this example is so much better than a lot of gt3/2 cars, turbos etc.
Go for it.
As they say..
get it bought.
And welcome to our exclusive club.
I'd deffo go that route.
And remember, I doesn't matter what model seems better, buy on condition.
Im sure this example is so much better than a lot of gt3/2 cars, turbos etc.
Go for it.
As they say..
get it bought.
And welcome to our exclusive club.
F3RNANDO said:
I would definately get Pedro Mugen to do a full drive by inspection.
If the engine is missing I would only be bothered by the type 2 record on the DME print out.
Replacement engine wise an M96 with new PMS OMS and FFS would be a safe bet.
Track day wise it's going to be more entertaining for punters on quality Linglong Widowspec FQ2 - soon to be N rated.
Naturally the Porsche branded CTEK will give an N rated current so I would go with that.
Finally if you can get the car featured in 911 and PW you are more or less guaranteed immunity to depreciation.
Make sure you do a project thread - with pictures.
Merry Christmas
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff