From Cayman R to 964?

[Lungauer]

I really love my Cayman R, so why am I thinking of selling it and getting a slower, less well equipped, leggy old 911? I keep thinking a clean example of one of the last characterful, air-cooled 911s would be a good way to go. May even go up in value!

What does anyone think?

[Diablos-666]

Well it does look like 964 prices are increasing and your R wil only come down in value (in the short term at least)

So you could trade in and get the 964 now with change in your pocket, and then buy another R later on and you'll have lost nothing.

Might as well do it now whilst you can IMO?

[Markh]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

I concur , I went from a Boxster S to a 964 C2 and love it, love that pic too your car looks almost identical to mine!

[Wozy68]

Lungauer said:

I really love my Cayman R, so why am I thinking of selling it and getting a slower, less well equipped, leggy old 911? I keep thinking a clean example of one of the last characterful, air-cooled 911s would be a good way to go. May even go up in value!

What does anyone think?

I think it's a great idea. I love air cooled Porsche (well any older porsche really) mainly because they are so much more fun to drive at near legal speeds.

In speed camera mad/heavy traffic UK, the actual fun of driving has been eroded. With any old Porsche the pleasure of it comes back. Every trip becomes an adventure, from the second you turn the key, and it doesn't have to be at warp factor 10 to enjoy it.

Saying that, near indicated 160MPH on the autobahn early last year proved my old 993 (with 114000 miles at the time under her belt) was for one thing, still capable of more and two, you could hardly call a 3.6 air-cooled 911 pedestrian.

Do it, and like another poster stated, keep it a little while, if you don't like sell it for what you bought it for, and return to a cheaper by then R.

Win win in my eyes. But if you haven't driven one before, your in for a shock compared to your cayman. Very old school until you adjust.

Edited to say. 1. I do not have a beard, 2, I do not smoke a pipe 3, I do though enjoy the occasional pint or 5 of real ale. -

Edited by Wozy68 on Wednesday 16th January 23:18

[Google [bot]]

Lungauer said:

What does anyone think?

The same as the other posters. Do it.

[fastgerman]

Love the 964 shape and if you can find an anniversary addition on the turbo body, then I'll be very jealous!

[Mr Ping]

While almost every man and his bearded dog appears to love the 993 the most my favourite has always been the 964.

Does it cost a lot to maintain in comparison to a 996.1? We are talking specialist servicing as opposed to OPC - it's just that I am sure I spotted a base level servicing cost in the past which was nearly double that of a 996.

Also does much tend to break on them? No need to preach to me about 996 RMS / IMS issues - I have already had a rebuild of the 996 engine! I am just curious how reliable a 964 is

[fastgerman]

There are quite a few 964s out there with engine rebuilds as there are with the 930 shape. These cars are approx 23 years old now so they aren't cheap to keep on the road.

Can't imagine the majority of 996 owners use the OPC network any more either and from looking at the main specialist costs, it's more like 3 times the price. Compared to a 997, which only needs servicing every 2 years, it's even more expensive.

[ras62]

OP, I think you would have as much fun in a 964 as the CR, even more at slower speeds as has been said but I think your mentality also comes into things. The 964 will be a more hands on experience, you will not find a car that goes from one yearly service to the next without needing something doing, they are two decades old after all, so if this is not your thing then stay away. If that does not worry you then go ahead and change, but finding the right car may prove more difficult that you imagine. Money should also favor the older car unless you catch the modify bug as many of us do!

[mrdemon]

whats your Cayman R spec

I am looking for one, but has to be very specific spec. (give or take a few bits)

[Mr Ping]

Ah well gutted, guess I will keep hankering after the 997 and Boxster Spyder instead then!

[Mr Ping]

Ok thanks for the feedback! I was about to say that the 996 doesnt cost me much to run over the course of a year then realised I have prolly put in around 2k into it myself in the past 12 months - not including tyres!

[Lungauer]

Thanks all for the replies - very interesting reading. I had imagined that a twenty year old car would need a little more attention but will have to give serious thought to what this will really entail. Owning a Defender gives me an idea of chasing down oil leaks (even under warranty), but I will have to be sure I want to be doing it with two vehicles.

For those interested in my R (and this is genuinely not a pitch for a sale) it's a manual Peridot with black wheels, buckets, PSE, Sport Chrono, short shift, nav and what-not. Not a stripped out example, but as a 10 stone person I didn't think a few kilos was going to make a great deal of difference.

[Wozy68]

Lungauer said:

Owning a Defender gives me an idea of chasing down oil leaks (even under warranty), but I will have to be sure I want to be doing it with two vehicles.

.

Lol, as a Defender owner myself ...... You could drop your Porsche from an 8 story building, run it on diesel for a month, redline in reverse and never warm up from cold eveyday for the next 10 years.

And you still would not have so much trouble with a 964. Love my Landy, but blimey, LR has just about replaced every moving part on mine. Aircooled Porsche? Walk in the park in comparison.

[supersport]

I have had my 3.2 for eaight years and reality it hasn't cost much to run. There were three bad years:

1. £1500 - new stainless crossover pipe and brake pipes (I think) including service & MOT.
2. £3200 - Major service & MOT plus clutch (engine out + gear box updates) and fuel lines around engine and some other bits, mainly as a result of being in storage for a year and not being driven (be warned)!
3. £2500 - Last year after a mini restoration had the full oil pipes/valve done, ride height sorted, full geo setup + major service & MOT.

From memory I have had one set of tyres, one set of pads, 1 starter motor and 1 alternator. In the remaining years it was just routine servicing and driving. Not bad in a 25 year old car.

I wouldn't expect the 964 to be "that" different in running costs.

[Lungauer]

Wozy68 said:

Lol, as a Defender owner myself ...... You could drop your Porsche from an 8 story building, run it on diesel for a month, redline in reverse and never warm up from cold eveyday for the next 10 years.

And you still would not have so much trouble with a 964. Love my Landy, but blimey, LR has just about replaced every moving part on mine. Aircooled Porsche? Walk in the park in comparison.

Sorry to hear that, though not entirely surprised. Actually I've been relatively lucky with mine (61 plate). Same rear diff leak fixed twice and water ingress from rear wheel arches stopped. Only done 9000 mles though...

[boxsey]

I would say that you need to be aware of the culture shock of going from the CR to a 964. I went from boxster to 964 and my initial thought was WTF have I done!! However, given time the older cars grow on you and you get to appreciate them for what they are. Luckily I now have old pork and newish pork...it's almost the perfect combination.

[Lungauer]

This is proving to be terribly time wasting at work. Checking the classifieds has lead me to Singer Vehicle Design and, perhaps questionably, I am now lusting after one. Not that I can afford one, mind you, but the Singer version makes the bumpers on the standard 964 look somewhat clumsy.

There seems to be a lot of variation in price for a standard C2 manual (which is what I think I would want) and I have no idea what to look for. Any suggestions for a way forward?

Then again - the CR is light, fast and relatively analogue in an increasingly digital world. Perhaps I'll get a Golf and stop tying myself up in knots.

[Wozy68]

Lungauer said:

This is proving to be terribly time wasting at work. Checking the classifieds has lead me to Singer Vehicle Design and, perhaps questionably, I am now lusting after one. Not that I can afford one, mind you, but the Singer version makes the bumpers on the standard 964 look somewhat clumsy.

There seems to be a lot of variation in price for a standard C2 manual (which is what I think I would want) and I have no idea what to look for. Any suggestions for a way forward?

Then again - the CR is light, fast and relatively analogue in an increasingly digital world. Perhaps I'll get a Golf and stop tying myself up in knots.

I owned a C2 964, but if I was in the market for another I'd be more inclined towards a C4. It all comes down to condition rather than how many wheels are driven IMO.

LR 110 owner 58 plate 77000 miles. New gearbox, rebuilt bodywork (because they built it incorrectly in the first place), broken (3times) bonnet catch, new clutch under warranty, replaced front diff, and rear quarter panel repairs due to stress factor from rear mudflap.

Still love it though, and virtually no depreciation. Madness. :-)

[marky911]

supersport said:

I have had my 3.2 for eaight years and reality it hasn't cost much to run. There were three bad years:

1. £1500 - new stainless crossover pipe and brake pipes (I think) including service & MOT.
2. £3200 - Major service & MOT plus clutch (engine out + gear box updates) and fuel lines around engine and some other bits, mainly as a result of being in storage for a year and not being driven (be warned)!
3. £2500 - Last year after a mini restoration had the full oil pipes/valve done, ride height sorted, full geo setup + major service & MOT.

From memory I have had one set of tyres, one set of pads, 1 starter motor and 1 alternator. In the remaining years it was just routine servicing and driving. Not bad in a 25 year old car.

I wouldn't expect the 964 to be "that" different in running costs.

This is a great example of some typical costs involved with the older cars. Things such as oil leaks, rusty exhausts, a bit of bodywork refreshment here and there and of course the regular servicing.

A good rule is to say £2k per year with some being a bit less hopefully. The example above is spot on for that.

As boxsey and a few of the other guys have said earlier you will find a 964 a bit of a shock at first and whether you can adapt to it only you'll know. You will definitely be shocked cosmetically I would think as even the tidiest of 964s will still have the odd mark here and there on the bodywork and little imperfections on some components. Nothing major, just age related marks or patina as it were.

They are lovely cars though and I can't add much to what has already been said, in that they feel alive, fun and involving at ALL speeds and are just a really cool 911 to own.

Like I say though only you know what you like in a car. I've said this before but my neighbour has a Boxster Spyder which he adores and he thought of my old 964T as an old banger. Had he offered me a straight swap though (slight difference in values aside) I'd have never swapped, as the spyder doesn't tick my boxes.
We are both petrolheads, but different types of petrolheads. Which one are you? ...............