Europe / alps / autobahn / nor urging 24hr trip - advice

[dank]

So I am planning on a Europe trip in my new 996 turbo, with a mate. Ideally we want to end up at the Nurburgring 24hr race for one night, and before that 3/4 days of driving, exploring and great roads in the 911, and definitely some autobahn to open up the turbos fully!

Having never done this before, apart from a hire car to Le Mans in 2010, could anyone help with routes, places to stay. Roads to definitely drive etc, any advice would be helpful

( nor urging - Nurburgring / predictive text on iPhone is crap )

[Jim1556]

Me n the missus are doing that in reverse: Camping at the Ring for the 24 hour race with a few mates and a lot of beer, then down to Innertkirchen (Switzerland) and onto Livigno (Italy), taking in Grimsel, Furka, Oberalp, Fluela and Foscagno passes - a lot of driving but brilliant roads and utterly spectacular scenery.

Hopefully the Stelvio is open as that's only about 30 miles from our hotel near Livigno (also a tax free zone so booze and petrol (90p/l) are dirt cheap, though strangely, a jar of coffee costs more than a litre of Vodka).

It'll be our 4th road trip to the Alps and won't be the last, it's breathtaking!

Here's a couple of pics from our trips to wet your appetite...

[FarQue]

Hotels near the 'Ring book up fast around the 24hr race.

[bobsan]

dank said:

So I am planning on a Europe trip in my new 996 turbo, with a mate. Ideally we want to end up at the Nurburgring 24hr race for one night, and before that 3/4 days of driving, exploring and great roads in the 911, and definitely some autobahn to open up the turbos fully!

Having never done this before, apart from a hire car to Le Mans in 2010, could anyone help with routes, places to stay. Roads to definitely drive etc, any advice would be helpful

( nor urging - Nurburgring / predictive text on iPhone is crap )

route aside, first thing you should have is ADAC break down cover. 3/4 days might not get you to the best roads (Austria,Italy,Swiss) but could go as far as Black Forest then head over to Ring.

[Billsnemesis]

Stelvio is a must if it is open. Wear something bright so that you show up, stand by the sausage vendor and get a friend to grab a screen shot from the webcam to prove you were there. Faces are too small to see but bright jackets stand out from the biker crowds.

If you are heading over the Fluela Pass from Davos (which is also worth doing) there is a long single file tunnel from Switzerland to Italy which leads to Lake Livigno from where you can reach Stelvio via Bormio. The tunnel has traffic lights at either end to control the traffic flow but it is worth the wait for the windows down revs up experience. It looks like it was hewn from the rock by smugglers with pickaxes. Very cool.

When I did the trip we went both ways over Stelvio coming back east to west at midnight and then down the Umbrail Pass which we did at 1am nearly causing a terminal loss of bowel control. Steep, narrow, windy and dark. Would love to see it in daylight, I think.

[jackal]

http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/993/alpine2012/...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMafgPR7XXg&hd=...








put it this way, at least 2 people said it was the best week of their entire life


wouldn't personally bother with stelvio unless you are specifically sightseeing. same goes for the famed Fluela pass featured on top gear which was the worst pass we drove on tbh

for driving you want the andermatt loop and the passes and then the black forest and D996 and route napolean if you can squeeze it in as well

the black forest for me was even better than the swiss passes

simplon pass to brig was also incredible as was the run south west of St Moritz

Edited by jackal on Thursday 7th February 14:37

[RiccardoG]

jackal said:

wouldn't personally bother with stelvio unless you are specifically sightseeing. same goes for the famed Fluela pass featured on top gear which was the worst pass we drove on tbh

for driving you want the andermatt loop and the passes and then the black forest and D996 and route napolean if you can squeeze it in as well

the black forest for me was even better than the swiss passes

simplon pass to brig was also incredible as was the run south west of St Moritz

Edited by jackal on Thursday 7th February 14:37

Have to agree with Jackal re the Andermatt loop. Sw of St Morits (just been there 3 weeks ago) is 'average' I'd say but going the other way (NE towards Zemez, Scuol, up to Austria) is fantastic.

Jackal, how do you rate the m-way from Italy through Dijon and onto Reims shown on your pic? Normally I drive up via Basel, Colmar, Strasbourg and through to Reims, but was considering a change (having done that at least 20 times now...!). "My" route is normally clear of traffic and not too many hiding Gendarmes with the laser guns.

[jackal]

RiccardoG said:

jackal said:

wouldn't personally bother with stelvio unless you are specifically sightseeing. same goes for the famed Fluela pass featured on top gear which was the worst pass we drove on tbh

for driving you want the andermatt loop and the passes and then the black forest and D996 and route napolean if you can squeeze it in as well

the black forest for me was even better than the swiss passes

simplon pass to brig was also incredible as was the run south west of St Moritz

Edited by jackal on Thursday 7th February 14:37

Have to agree with Jackal re the Andermatt loop. Sw of St Morits (just been there 3 weeks ago) is 'average' I'd say but going the other way (NE towards Zemez, Scuol, up to Austria) is fantastic.

Jackal, how do you rate the m-way from Italy through Dijon and onto Reims shown on your pic? Normally I drive up via Basel, Colmar, Strasbourg and through to Reims, but was considering a change (having done that at least 20 times now...!). "My" route is normally clear of traffic and not too many hiding Gendarmes with the laser guns.

That was the d996, one of the most amazing roads ive ever been on and totally desolate. Mile after mile, 2 hours of bliss and only ever met 1 citreon van in the same direction. Quite bumpy but was fine in the 993. Would be even more sublime in a lotus or something similarly compliant.

[RiccardoG]

jackal said:

That was the d996, one of the most amazing roads ive ever been on and totally desolate. Mile after mile, 2 hours of bliss and only ever met 1 citreon van in the same direction. Quite bumpy but was fine in the 993. Would be even more sublime in a lotus or something similarly compliant.

Thanks, will seriously have a look at this new route option now.

[dank]

Thanks for all the advice, so if we miss of Nurburgring, and just focus on great scenic roads, mountain passes, etc would be ideal, Black Forest sounds good, think the routes suggested are maybe too long distance wise for 3/4 days, maybe we can stretch to 5 days and ideally want the most beautiful route to drive,

[RiccardoG]

jackal said:

That was the d996, one of the most amazing roads ive ever been on and totally desolate. Mile after mile, 2 hours of bliss and only ever met 1 citreon van in the same direction. Quite bumpy but was fine in the 993. Would be even more sublime in a lotus or something similarly compliant.

Well, I drove the D996 over the weekend. A great road, although a maybe bit too bumpy for my full enjoyment, but thanks for the heads up, was nice to find it and stayed overnight in Dijon which was a very nice little town and bought some fantastic mustard too!

[dank]

So, saw on Top Gear on Dave,

San bernardino pass - then Davos - Stelvio are great roads to drive, mountains, lakes, great roads, tunnels!

will research a route for this,

so what is essential to take,

1. European breakdown cover
2. Europe sat nav / pad maps

Whats the accommodation situation like in these areas, is it feasible to just turn up and find somewhere on the day, or is it better to book ahead, is it expensive?

thanks

[jackal]

Too bumpy in a 997S ! You must be greyer than I am

[RiccardoG]

jackal said:

Too bumpy in a 997S ! You must be greyer than I am

Is that an extra "r" there??

Maybe it was the 50 odd bottles of wine & olive oil in the front boot which made it bumpier!

dank said:

so what is essential to take,

1. European breakdown cover
2. Europe sat nav / pad maps

Whats the accommodation situation like in these areas, is it feasible to just turn up and find somewhere on the day, or is it better to book ahead, is it expensive?

thanks

"Legal essentials" for EU include, amongst other things:
- GB sticker on rear bumper (I've never used one in 15 years of travelling abroad)
- Flourescent vest inside cockpit, one per passenger in theory, I only have one anyways
- Spare bulbs kit and warning triangle
- Starting this year, disposable breathliser thingy in France

Accomodation depends mostly on time of year I'd say, but in general I find it more efficient to call and reserve a place the day before so you spend less time worrying about it and enjoy more the drive.

[dank]

So when would people suggest is a good time of year to do this, and when's not so good, I am guessing anytime during summer holidays when kids are off would be bad, so possibly May?

Also, call me paranoid, but having driven in Spain and Italy in hire cars, I have noticed, they drive like nut cases, with no real worries about scraping your paint work etc, is Germany, Switzerland the same? Would it be wiser to drive through Germany mainly, rather than France, or is the French route shown above more interesting?

[RiccardoG]

Yep, late May early June would be my choice. Too early and you risk the mountain passes being closed, too late and you start getting holiday traffic. Ideally go on the alpine passes during weekdays as they're too busy on the summer weekends, whereas weekdays they are practically deserted.

I drive mine in Italy quite frequently (it lives in Milan city centre part of the time) and haven't had issues, but I would NOT park it on the road in any Italian city (thats a high risk strategy!). Northern Italy (upwards of Florence, roughly) is generally fine in terms of driving standards, but its more down to what you are comfortable with on a personal basis.

I find that France has great driving standards all round. If anything I've had more issues in Germany as they can be quite agressive if you're in the wrong lane unwittingly. The Swiss instead can be slightly busybody and will flash you to "congratulate" a great overtaking manouvre...

Edited by RiccardoG on Tuesday 26th February 18:29

[Richie200]

Which road in the black forest is it that you speak so highly of? I live in close proximity, so it would be rude not to verify your claim

[Technomad]

RiccardoG said:

Yep, late May early June would be my choice. Too early and you risk the mountain passes being closed, too late and you start getting holiday traffic. Ideally go on the alpine passes during weekdays as they're too busy on the summer weekends, whereas weekdays they are practically deserted.

I drive mine in Italy quite frequently (it lives in Milan city centre part of the time) and haven't had issues, but I would NOT park it on the road in any Italian city (thats a high risk strategy!). Northern Italy (upwards of Florence, roughly) is generally fine in terms of driving standards, but its more down to what you are comfortable with on a personal basis.

I find that France has great driving standards all round. If anything I've had more issues in Germany as they can be quite agressive if you're in the wrong lane unwittingly. The Swiss instead can be slightly busybody and will flash you to "congratulate" a great overtaking manouvre...

Edited by RiccardoG on Tuesday 26th February 18:29

+1 for the timing - last year the Fluela was still closed as of mid-April: since they opened the Vereina rail tunnel in '99, they don't particularly bother to plough the pass. I think my passengers were secretly pleased - no fun spending your time being continually smeared against the side windows of my X5. In fact, avoid anything resembling ski season, as the queues of cars heading down can be huge, and if you don't leave Livigno by about 0530 for the Munt Lac Schera tunnel opening, you could be held up for hours. Timetable at: http://www.livigno.eu/en/village/how-to-reach-us/t... - it's controlled by the Swiss and the Livignards (sic) firmly believe that the Swiss try to maximise the inconvenience for anyone heading into Italy.

I've been in from both the Italian and Swiss sides - I'd say that the roads on the Stelvio (Italian) side (Fluela itself excepted) are more interesting but there are more small villages along the road and the Italian-side driving shows their usual utter and blithe disregard for the laws of physics. I'm hoping to go back this summer in/on a proper vehicle for the roads - with the narrowness of many of the bends, i'm thinking more Ducati than 997...

Agree entirely on driving standards - Plod apart, I love driving in France - there are psychos everywhere, but I'd rate France as better than Germany for numpty factor, with both better than the UK, by some margin.

And I'd recommend Hotel Bivio in Livigno - plentiful food, friendly, nice spa in the basement and good value. I have no connection other than as a satisfied customer yada yada...

Edited by Technomad on Tuesday 26th February 21:23