Where are all the 996s with rebuilt engines?

[mdowning]

I've been looking at 996s again recently. I know they divide opinion, but I like them a lot - specifically the MY02 onwards (one of my youth favourites).

I'm fairly well versed on their main pitfalls. Anyhow, I was thinking one route to mitigate IMS/cylinder scoring worries would be to find one that has had a rebuilt/replacement engine (or potentially one whose engine has failed and needs to be rebuilt).

Given how much negative press the 996 gets for its weak engine (I'm not saying it isn't, we all know it's flawed) it's surprising how few there are for sale that have actually had rebuilds/replacement engines. I mean, there are around 220 available on PH. I think I can only find a couple that have had rebuilds/replacement engines. And I don't think this is unusual - as long as I can remember, this has essentially been the case (i.e. lack of cars available with rebuilds).

I was wondering whether anyone could shed some light on this? I might be answering my own question, but strikes me that it could be due to (i) failures less frequent than made out to be on internet forums (albeit my colleague had an IMS failure) (ii) people can't bring themselves to sell after spending £££ on rebuild (iii) cars' engine failures conveniently coincide with a serious accident (serendipity?) or (iv) a combination of them above. Equally, there don't seem to be many knocking about in need of a 7k rebuild - although, in truth, I wouldn't really know where to look for these.

Just curious really... any thoughts/insight appreciated. cheers

Edited by mdowning on Tuesday 12th February 22:47

[Lowtimer]

If I had a 996 with a properly built engine (Hartech / Autofarm) I wouldn't be rushing to sell it. I assume most of those who have made such a wallet-straining investment are determined to get their money's worth by hanging on to their cars and using them.

[mollytherocker]

There are also cars that either the owner is not aware of a previous engine change or rebuild and those that choose not to mention it for fear of scaring people off.

Remember that many people can't afford to rebuild them with the fixes and just do the minimum to off load them at the least loss.

[UrbanAchiever]

Based on the small sample size you are referring to that equates to about 1%. Maybe that is the rate of failure?

[Porkupine]

UrbanAchiever said:

Based on the small sample size you are referring to that equates to about 1%. Maybe that is the rate of failure?

But probably another 5-6, as MTR says, people have not declared as rebuilt. So more like 4-5% I would suggest. Also, this sample excludes those that have been scrapped as uneconomical to repair(as mentioned above), which when faced with a £7k bill for a £10k car I suggest many people would certainly consider.

Overall, I am sure the failure rate is more than 1%.

[sulli]

Simple, failure rate exaggerated as are most things discussed on the Internet

[marky911]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yep, a good few are sold to the trade and broken for spares, or rebuilt.

There are usually at least 3 or 4 in the classifieds out of a couple of hundred.

As also mentioned, once you've gone to the trouble of having one rebuilt you may as well keep it to enjoy what you've spent.

[cd1957]

Hi one of my customers is looking to sell the 996 with Hartech rebuild just over 2 years ago.

Chris (Cardiff)

[supersport]

It does seem like a reasonable approach, one of my neighbours bought a 996 with blown engine and then had it rebuilt as he wanted it done.

[madala]

Lowtimer said:

If I had a 996 with a properly built engine (Hartech / Autofarm) I wouldn't be rushing to sell it. I assume most of those who have made such a wallet-straining investment are determined to get their money's worth by hanging on to their cars and using them.

....that....

[Err Indoors]

Also think its forum hype.
I know a specialist who has had one in all last year for a rebuild.

[supersport]

Err Indoors said:

Also think its forum hype.
I know a specialist who has had one in all last year for a rebuild.

Things may well have calmed down with most of the bad ones having gone pop and so the frequency has dropped off. My specialist has built quite a few and at one point was regularly getting new crated 997 engines too.

[Mr Ping]

Mine got rebuilt and has been rock-solid since so I am hesitant to sell it! I'm starting to think that unless it blows up on me then I might be getting buried in a 996 shaped coffin.

Hmm in fact its a convertible.... they can close the hood on me just before they chuck the dirt in.

[mini1380cc]

Err Indoors said:

Also think its forum hype.
I know a specialist who has had one in all last year for a rebuild.

Really?

I think it is a little more realistic than owners care to admit. There was a PH'er in Readers Rides who had IMS failure just the other day. My friends 986 just had IMS failure a few months back. The garage that he taken it to who isn't even a Porsche specialist but more a general sports car garage has done a fair few rebuilds. Another friend who restores VW camper vans has an IMS damaged block lying in his lockup.


Considering the 996 and 986 isn't exactly the most common car around there sure seems to be regular reports of IMS failures.

Edited by mini1380cc on Wednesday 13th February 10:28

[giltranator]

I have a Boxster S which suffered engine failure in December. Having been offered low amounts of money for the car I would think that many of them get broken up as this seems the most cost effective approach. However, seeing as this was my first Porsche, owning it for 3 years and never planing on selling it I couldn't bare to break it so it's now sat on my drive waiting to get fixed when I have enough money

[Paracetamol]

When I advertised my 2007 997 I did not mention that it had an engine replaced under warranty at 17k kms...and nor did the chap whom I purchased it from- though I did check the history before buying it and was quite happy it had been replaced as it came with a balance of a 2 year engine warranty

[Synackrst]

OP, i adopted the approach you mention when buying my 2003 C4s (tip)

I originally wanted a Hartech or Autofarm rebuilt engine but settled for a car with 73k that had the engine replaced under warranty at OPC Solihull when at 58k.

It gets 6 monthly oil changes, annual services, the rads kept clean and I drive it without worrying (3-4k annually). Should the worst happen I'll pay for it to be fixed rather than pay for a warranty that may not be required.

Just my approach to it. I appreciate there are many. Most valid & dependant on circumstances...

Cheers
Billy

[mdowning]

I guess the other option is to buy a well maintained car and have the LN Engineering IMS retrofitted and perhaps have the clutch/RMS done at the same time (I could be barking up the wrong tree on the overlap of the jobs).

Re some comments about sellers not mentioning rebuild/new engine on a 996 - I'd have thought it was such an obvious selling point. I'm not so sure your average 996 buyer is as completely ignorant of the issues as we on PH assume ... and I'd imagine PART of the cause for more rapid depreciation on 996/997 models vs previous models could be down to the potentially v. expensive and v. frequently talked about engine flaw

[Magic919]

I got the LN Engineering IMS fitted along with a new clutch and the dual mass flywheel on a C4S. That and some rads means it's in good shape for us and will help when we shift it on to anyone in the know.

I still think gen pop know very little of the problems.

[mdowning]

The general population, agreed. If I told either of my parents I'd suffered an IMS failure they'd assume I needed to go to a hospital, not to Northway/Hartech/Autofarm etc. However, 996 owners and potential buyers - I'm not so sure. You only need to do a tiny amount of research on the internet to find realise this issue exists. And I believe most buyers of a 996 will have done some research.

ETA: just thinking about the experiences of the two Porsches I've sold - buyers/potential buyers seemed to be pretty clued up (and check list happy).

Edited by mdowning on Wednesday 13th February 20:28