991 electric steering, will I get used to it?
Discussion
I'm driving a 991 S pdk for a while in Dubai, felt more like our Merc than the 996 turbo. Didn't really get to take it round too many corners but seemed ridiculously planted and I could not tell how much I was pushing the car and I did not want to find the limit of grip the hard way. In my 996 turbo it feeds back how much front end grip I have pretty much all the time when I'm driving hard. I was not expecting it to have the feel of my Elise of coure but either they have pushed the limits much much higher than any 996 or 997 that I have driven or they have made it totally very inert?
So tell me do I put on my brave pills and push it harder or just cruise around like it's a BMW
So tell me do I put on my brave pills and push it harder or just cruise around like it's a BMW
As a mechanic I drive all sorts of cars. Not too many Porsches sadly. I have not found an electric system I like yet but I'm sure if you drive it for long enough it will seem less alien. I feel we are all going to have to get used to the systems sooner or later as all the manufactures are heading that way. 
After 5,500 miles in a 991S, one very wet, greasy track day, a half day on the skid pan and ice hill at PEC, and a quite a bit of back road hooning I reckon that I can comment on the steering.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
That is encouraging, this car is PDCC
Old Trout said:
After 5,500 miles in a 991S, one very wet, greasy track day, a half day on the skid pan and ice hill at PEC, and a quite a bit of back road hooning I reckon that I can comment on the steering.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
That is encouraging, this car is PDCC
Old Trout said:
After 5,500 miles in a 991S, one very wet, greasy track day, a half day on the skid pan and ice hill at PEC, and a quite a bit of back road hooning I reckon that I can comment on the steering.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
That is encouraging, this car is PDCC
Old Trout said:
After 5,500 miles in a 991S, one very wet, greasy track day, a half day on the skid pan and ice hill at PEC, and a quite a bit of back road hooning I reckon that I can comment on the steering.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
Initial feel can best be described as 'glassy'. It does feel different and the messages to your hands are alien.
After the experience and the mileage I would now say it does not feel alien and I now think the steering is very good. On wet tracks and on the skid pan, I never once felt that I lacked front end feel. The steering now seems very feelsome, but the messages to your hands are initially different to 997 steering. Driving along the road, using the wheel lightly you can feel the camber and surface shifts. Pushing on hard the car is very planted and you can feel the weight and grip move and change at both ends.
At least in my experience, yes it is different, and when you live with it you begin to realise that all you need is there at your fingertips. I note that car reviews without PDCC do not suffer the same feedback on the steering as PDCC cars. I do not have PDCC.
I did wonder if the PDCC was causing some odd effects on the 991, but I've not found one without it to compare
compared to the boxster I drove without it the 991 with PDCC felt like it was driving on tippy toes from a steering perspective, giving no confidence that it would turn in at all.
Get past that and have faith that it will and it turns in beautifully, but that tippy toes feeling is somewhat odd and present on all PDCC equipped 991s I've driven but not the 997 or 981
compared to the boxster I drove without it the 991 with PDCC felt like it was driving on tippy toes from a steering perspective, giving no confidence that it would turn in at all.
Get past that and have faith that it will and it turns in beautifully, but that tippy toes feeling is somewhat odd and present on all PDCC equipped 991s I've driven but not the 997 or 981
Isn't electric steering just going to become standard on all new cars eventually anyway? IIRC correctly when power assisted steering initially came out the likes of Clarkson immediately slated all Japanese cars because of this feature but then by the time it started appearing on Ferraris and such, the whole furore had died down and he didn't even bat an eyelid.
I remember when I got my first car with power steering and immediately thought it was lame. Years later when I'd got used it I had a crash and the electrics went wonky knocking out the power steering in the process - it was that hard to drive afterwards I nearly drove onto the grass verge when trying to come off the motorway as I found it so hard to turn.
Anyway I guess it's all relative to what you're used to.
Regarding Audis, I once tried out an S3 after owning a CTR for a few years - whilst it felt quicker than the CTR it felt really sterile and bland because of the steering and lacked the drama of the CTR - yet all I see for the S3's are great reviews everywhere. Maybe if I drove one again now after I'd spent an hour ferrying the baby about in the Honda Jazz then it would feel like the mutts nuts.
I remember when I got my first car with power steering and immediately thought it was lame. Years later when I'd got used it I had a crash and the electrics went wonky knocking out the power steering in the process - it was that hard to drive afterwards I nearly drove onto the grass verge when trying to come off the motorway as I found it so hard to turn.
Anyway I guess it's all relative to what you're used to.
Regarding Audis, I once tried out an S3 after owning a CTR for a few years - whilst it felt quicker than the CTR it felt really sterile and bland because of the steering and lacked the drama of the CTR - yet all I see for the S3's are great reviews everywhere. Maybe if I drove one again now after I'd spent an hour ferrying the baby about in the Honda Jazz then it would feel like the mutts nuts.
GT Glee said:
Steering feel is emulated on the 991 so I wonder whether it is possible to upgrade the software to GT3 spec which AP says "trust me" on..
I was wondering about this. There is still (presumably) a mechanical link between steering wheel and road wheels so is the feel 'emulated' or is it the case that feel is more 'filtered' by virtue of the motor damping effect?WallyCarrera said:
I was wondering about this. There is still (presumably) a mechanical link between steering wheel and road wheels so is the feel 'emulated' or is it the case that feel is more 'filtered' by virtue of the motor damping effect?
Indeed,I assume electrical assistance means that the car is still mechanically connected to the front wheels,just like any power assisted system ,and therefore the feedback is still of the mechanical variety ,it is not simulated ...or is it ? If it is it's a very good simulation.In the dead ahead position there isn't assistance applied is there ?
Not that I care,I think it's very good and if it's 10% less feel some than a 997 that is a price worth paying for a better car in pretty much every other respect.
The other cars I'm directly comparing it to are a gen1 997 c2s cab with sport chrono and a panemera turbo. Engine in the 991 is epic and sounds fantastic, would be great to have a go in one on a track day and safely push the limits.
nsm3 said:
Drive an Audi (any Audi) for a while - I'm sure the Porsche leccy system will feel fine afterwards?
I'm not sure Porsche engineers will have got this steering issue so wrong that your average driver will notice the difference.
Having driven a 991 on a couple of occasions my view is you can make a mountain out of a mole hill and find fault in anything if you so wish to do so.
It's a epic car drives brilliantly and let's face it, it's been years since a steering wheel was directly attached to the wheels being steered.
Having driven a 991 on a couple of occasions my view is you can make a mountain out of a mole hill and find fault in anything if you so wish to do so.
It's a epic car drives brilliantly and let's face it, it's been years since a steering wheel was directly attached to the wheels being steered.
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