Discussion
Hello all,
Really want to buy my first 911 and can't choose between a 964 or 996. A 993 would be great but they're too expensive. I've done loads of research and driven both. Each have their pro's and con's and I feel I'd be more than happy to own either.
Ultimately, it comes down to cost of maintenance. Whilst the car will be a second vehicle and used a few times a week, the less financially ruinous the better.
Current thoughts are that a 996 should be cheaper to run as its more modern. However, I tend to worry about cylinder liners and de-chunking etc. The RMS doesn't bother me and the IMS can be changed out as a preventative. Replacement engine cost is very worrying.
Really liking the idea of a 964, but due to age more bits will need attention. Really my main worry is the likelihood of a rebuild due to oil leaks. I can cope with the rest. I live in the Middle East so tin worm shouldn't be an issue. I also feel the 964 will be a better long term investment.
Overall, my conclusion is that a 996 will be less costly unless I suffer a major engine failure. A 964 will be more costly but less likely to see a huge engine bill as a rebuild is possible rather than a replacement.
Any thoughts guys?
Thanks
Matt
Really want to buy my first 911 and can't choose between a 964 or 996. A 993 would be great but they're too expensive. I've done loads of research and driven both. Each have their pro's and con's and I feel I'd be more than happy to own either.
Ultimately, it comes down to cost of maintenance. Whilst the car will be a second vehicle and used a few times a week, the less financially ruinous the better.
Current thoughts are that a 996 should be cheaper to run as its more modern. However, I tend to worry about cylinder liners and de-chunking etc. The RMS doesn't bother me and the IMS can be changed out as a preventative. Replacement engine cost is very worrying.
Really liking the idea of a 964, but due to age more bits will need attention. Really my main worry is the likelihood of a rebuild due to oil leaks. I can cope with the rest. I live in the Middle East so tin worm shouldn't be an issue. I also feel the 964 will be a better long term investment.
Overall, my conclusion is that a 996 will be less costly unless I suffer a major engine failure. A 964 will be more costly but less likely to see a huge engine bill as a rebuild is possible rather than a replacement.
Any thoughts guys?
Thanks
Matt
964 vs 996 is a strange one really. They are totally different.
In terms of maintenance, it will come down more on the specific car you buy. Either could eat your wallet for different reasons.
What will be different is the future value. A good 964 will be worth a LOT more than a good 996 in most peoples view.
You say you have driven both, I would say buy the one that suits you better. Then just find a good one.
In terms of maintenance, it will come down more on the specific car you buy. Either could eat your wallet for different reasons.
What will be different is the future value. A good 964 will be worth a LOT more than a good 996 in most peoples view.
You say you have driven both, I would say buy the one that suits you better. Then just find a good one.
I have owned both as my daily driver 15k+ per year so driven over 30k miles in each. Though in fairness the 964 was nearly 20 years ago.. there are so many more 996 for sale you should be able to find a good one with WARRANTY . the 964 will be a money pit unless you are lucky with very few good ones comming up for sale and remember the 996 is way WAY quicker .I guess I am saying 996, though the 964 is still a lovely car
Edited by T22AGA on Wednesday 3rd April 15:51
If you want a "real" 911 go for a 964. Both are great cars but personally for me lots of the draw of a 964 is the build quality and character of the car. The 996 was built to a price and it shows. It is also a much bigger car, which could be good or bad depending on your perspective. Dynamically of course the 996 is ahead but in terms of actual driving pleasure i am not so sure..
in regard to cost i would be fairly confident in saying a 996 would be cheaper to run in almost every way. A 964 might be marginally better built but its a 50 year old design and with that you will have potential rust issues and other items, they are quite complex cars not that dissimilar in complexity to a 996 so there is quite a lot to go wrong. In regard to the engines a 964 engine is likely to cost more to have a rebuild than a 996 and although there are lots of horror stories around the 996 there must be equal probability of any 964 needing a rebuild.
go out and drive them, i was in the same position and got a 996 as a couldn't find a really nice 964 carrera 2 manual there are far more 996 out there and a lot easier to get a good one in you preferred spec.
FYI, i had a 3.2 carrera and just moved to a 996 so understand the cost of the older cars
go out and drive them, i was in the same position and got a 996 as a couldn't find a really nice 964 carrera 2 manual there are far more 996 out there and a lot easier to get a good one in you preferred spec.
FYI, i had a 3.2 carrera and just moved to a 996 so understand the cost of the older cars
jackpe said:
If you want a "real" 911 go for a 964. Both are great cars but personally for me lots of the draw of a 964 is the build quality and character of the car. The 996 was built to a price and it shows. It is also a much bigger car, which could be good or bad depending on your perspective. Dynamically of course the 996 is ahead but in terms of actual driving pleasure i am not so sure..
Always love comments like its not a real 911 or its not a real Porsche.So my friend with all your experience humour me why a 996 is not a "real" 911.
Is it a pretend one then?
If you get a sound 996 to begin with and put an upgraded IMS in for security then I think medium to long term the engine costs would be pretty similar if you did suffer any problems necessitating a rebuild.
A typical 964 rebuild is £4k-£6k and I don't think it's much different for a 996 done by Hartech, which includes modifications & improvements (whereas the 964 would simply be a refresh). A lot of odds-and-ends issues on 964's come up here which would make one dearer to run but they're often related to corrosion (oil tank coming loose on the right hand rear inner wing, exhausts, windscreen surrounds) so it'll be different where you are.
A typical 964 rebuild is £4k-£6k and I don't think it's much different for a 996 done by Hartech, which includes modifications & improvements (whereas the 964 would simply be a refresh). A lot of odds-and-ends issues on 964's come up here which would make one dearer to run but they're often related to corrosion (oil tank coming loose on the right hand rear inner wing, exhausts, windscreen surrounds) so it'll be different where you are.
I was in a similar position to you but looking for a daily. A good 964 was hard to find and getting more and more pricey. If you compare the fixed price specialist dealer servicing they are at opposite ends of the 911 spectrum costwise with the 996 being the cheapest one out there by quite some way. I found the 964 to be more likely to have niggles and probably more likely to have had dubious repairs in the past. For a regularly used car the climate control in the 996 was also a very strong pull. The fact that the 964 drove a bit too much like my old beetles wasn't bad but I wanted to move on from that and two years with my 996 carrera 2 I definitely haven't regretted my decision!
Thanks for your thoughts so far.
As I say, I'm in the Middle East, so Hartech etc. won't be fixing the car. Nor should rust be an issue.
I love the idea of the 964 as they seem a little more special. They also seem to be a good investment as prices are firming up nicely. It'll be a left hand drive car. If I bring it back to the UK with me eventually it will be worth a few bob as LHD versions go for a premium in Europe.
996 would probably be less of a hassle to run and would be quicker. Still put off by the engine issues that effectively render the car a write off. Not sure if that would ruin the ownership experience.
As I say, I'm in the Middle East, so Hartech etc. won't be fixing the car. Nor should rust be an issue.
I love the idea of the 964 as they seem a little more special. They also seem to be a good investment as prices are firming up nicely. It'll be a left hand drive car. If I bring it back to the UK with me eventually it will be worth a few bob as LHD versions go for a premium in Europe.
996 would probably be less of a hassle to run and would be quicker. Still put off by the engine issues that effectively render the car a write off. Not sure if that would ruin the ownership experience.
It's a good question you're asking OP. I've had plenty of 996s of all varieties so am a fan, however air cooled just gets under your skin somehow. I think it's a combination of looks, sound and build quality - you feel like you're driving something cool and a bit different. If you can find a good one go 964. I hope I never have to sell mine - it's like a member of the family!
For me:
964 - always an event and fun even at 50mph
996 (non GT) - massively accomplished and quicker, but not a long term keeper at the mo
Hope that helps and good luck!!
For me:
964 - always an event and fun even at 50mph
996 (non GT) - massively accomplished and quicker, but not a long term keeper at the mo
Hope that helps and good luck!!
Crimp a Length! said:
jackpe said:
If you want a "real" 911 go for a 964. Both are great cars but personally for me lots of the draw of a 964 is the build quality and character of the car. The 996 was built to a price and it shows. It is also a much bigger car, which could be good or bad depending on your perspective. Dynamically of course the 996 is ahead but in terms of actual driving pleasure i am not so sure..
Always love comments like its not a real 911 or its not a real Porsche.So my friend with all your experience humour me why a 996 is not a "real" 911.
Is it a pretend one then?
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