Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil - Good for our cars?
Discussion
Mja300 said:
Hi mate.
I've got a Hartech rebuilt cayman s, which is currently running millers xfs. As I understand it though, this is just for the 'running in' period (2000 miles).
Not sure millers is a standard oil that they usually recommend/use.
Why did it need a rebuild m8, what happened, how much did it cost please?I've got a Hartech rebuilt cayman s, which is currently running millers xfs. As I understand it though, this is just for the 'running in' period (2000 miles).
Not sure millers is a standard oil that they usually recommend/use.
This is the oil Hartech seem to use and recommend:-
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/tds-automo...
Be good if Baz or anyone in know how can comment on the positives / negatives of using this over the mobil one 0W-40 Porsche recommend?
Edited by Gibbo205 on Sunday 21st April 19:27
I bought it as a Hartech sales car in January of this year. It had a full rebuild including 6 cylinder liners after scoring 3 of its bores with a previous owner. Not sure of the total cost as the work had already been carried out as I purchased the car. Top guys though and I am lucky to live so close and have such a great porsche independent.
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there
Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?
Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?
Sure there are disadvantages. Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?
Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?
Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.
The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.
Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
Rockster said:
Sure there are disadvantages.
Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.
The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.
Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
Based on that amazed Hartech recommend this oil to prevent bore scoring???Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.
The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.
Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
Doh! If only Baz had known! 40 years buidling engines and an international reputation as the foremost authority on M96/7 cars and a couple of years working with Millers to determine what works best and he gets it all wrong. I know which oil my 996 will be imbibing, and it's not Mobil 1.
ScienceTeacher said:
Doh! If only Baz had known! 40 years buidling engines and an international reputation as the foremost authority on M96/7 cars and a couple of years working with Millers to determine what works best and he gets it all wrong. I know which oil my 996 will be imbibing, and it's not Mobil 1.
Are you using this Millers oil m8 I've linked too?I would have thought the retained oil film on the components is more important at start up. Its the reason why many engine builders use assembly grease or coat the components in oil as per the motors rebuild guidance.
Its interesting to understand how oil viscosity is measured because this makes it clear what we are talking about:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/411
Note the bullet points under "A significant reduction in oil viscosity can result in:". So there you have it, the thinner oil has the advantages highlighted by a previous poster but it may also have some very significant disadvantages.
Its interesting to understand how oil viscosity is measured because this makes it clear what we are talking about:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/411
Note the bullet points under "A significant reduction in oil viscosity can result in:". So there you have it, the thinner oil has the advantages highlighted by a previous poster but it may also have some very significant disadvantages.
I believe you will find that the experts think bore scoring occurs at high temperatures when the oil film breaks down and the piston comes into contact with the cylinder.
The damage is a result excessive heat and lubrication failure.
Porsche do not have a particularly good track record of dealing with this inherent design fault so a wise person might like to take advice from specialists who develop/race/repair/improve these engines for a living.
The damage is a result excessive heat and lubrication failure.
Porsche do not have a particularly good track record of dealing with this inherent design fault so a wise person might like to take advice from specialists who develop/race/repair/improve these engines for a living.
I could be wrong but the Mobil tie up is simply business between one large company and another, and I believe that the Porsche Cup cars are run on Millers.
It isn't just Mobil that have Porsche approval but a number of the oil manufacturers Millers being one of them and simply that Mobil is the oil that the OPCs are told to put in by Porsche hence the business connection.
I have just had my oil changed and in went the Millers!
It isn't just Mobil that have Porsche approval but a number of the oil manufacturers Millers being one of them and simply that Mobil is the oil that the OPCs are told to put in by Porsche hence the business connection.
I have just had my oil changed and in went the Millers!
Gibbo205 said:
Rockster said:
Sure there are disadvantages.
Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.
The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.
Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
ty Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start. The risk? Bore scoring! If the bearings don't gall up first. Or the zero-lash lifters suffer from lack of oil flow when the engine fires up. Or the VarioCam Plus hardware suffers from improper lubrication or the viscosity differences result in added wear and tear to the VarioCam hardware. Or this oil's splash/sling characteristics are different from that of approved oils and the splash lubed camshaft lobes and lifter bucket faces receive insufficient oil at start up or at other times.
The oil is very likely to result in a drop (it may be too small to notice) in fuel economy. A heaver oil results in more friction and this takes power to overcome.
Also, more friction means more heat. There is the possibility the thicker/heavier oil could suffer from high temp/high pressure break down as it overheats in the tiny clearances that are the rod/main bearings.
Based on that amazed Hartech recommend this oil to prevent bore scoring???
If Rocksters fears were realistic, engines would be failing left right and centre in the winter months.
I have always found it interesting that the main oil recommended these days is Mobil 1, when in independent tests it is often found wanting in comparison with others. Why would that be?
Rockster said:
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there
Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?
Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?
Sure there are disadvantages. Noticed Hartech use/recommend Millers 10W-50 Nano Oil for 996/997's, can anyone explain as to why this is?
Should I change to this oil over the Mobil One 0W-40 that Porsche recommend, any dis-advantages like power/fuel economy etc?
Ignoring that it is the wrong oil for the engine (no Porsche approved oil is a 10w-xx oil) the higher W number means the oil flows less readily during a cold start.
Engine Oils Approved by Porsche
All oils on the Porsche Approved Oils list
Ois of viscosity 0W-40, 5W-40. 10W-40 and Higher if they comply with ACEA A3 spec
Oils of Viscosity 0W-30, 5W-30 & 10W-30 if the are included in the Porsche Approval list.
So basically any of the higher rated oils above are OK, hence mine runs on a A3 oil that is SL spec in fact 10W-40.
Tests in the US have shown that one of the reasons for IMS failure MAY be too thin an oil, hence recommendations to run higher grades.
My 70k 993 was main dealer serviced from new and always ran the thinner synthetic oils recommended by the OPC and the manufacturer.
However after being very disappointed after another poor main dealer experience I took the car to Hartech for its major service.
Hartech used the thicker semi synthetic Millers. The engine sounded smoother, especially from cold. I am more than happy with the oil, and more than happy with Hartech's experience and qualification in the field.
Indies always recommend using thicker non or semi synthetic oils. Because they do offer more protection for engines.
However after being very disappointed after another poor main dealer experience I took the car to Hartech for its major service.
Hartech used the thicker semi synthetic Millers. The engine sounded smoother, especially from cold. I am more than happy with the oil, and more than happy with Hartech's experience and qualification in the field.
Indies always recommend using thicker non or semi synthetic oils. Because they do offer more protection for engines.
showed good gains on an early 911:
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/news/2012/220212-Pors...
"The first test, running with CFS 10w60 showed an normalised power output (DIN 70020) of 268 bhp.
After changing the oil for the new CFS 10w60 NT and running the engine fully up to operating temperature the second power test showed a normalised power output (DIN 70020) of 283 bhp
Peak torque of 307 Nm showed an increase over 295 Nm as measured at 5340 RPM."
http://www.millersoils.co.uk/news/2012/220212-Pors...
"The first test, running with CFS 10w60 showed an normalised power output (DIN 70020) of 268 bhp.
After changing the oil for the new CFS 10w60 NT and running the engine fully up to operating temperature the second power test showed a normalised power output (DIN 70020) of 283 bhp
Peak torque of 307 Nm showed an increase over 295 Nm as measured at 5340 RPM."
Edited by Jevvy on Monday 22 April 11:33
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