First Porsche - 944 vs 986?
Discussion
OK, so for a long time I have fancied buying a 944. Always been a sucker for pop ups ever since I had an S13 200SX, and most recently my mk1 Eunos (which is almost on it's way to a new owner) - always admired the 944. Read about them to death, etc.
However, never got around to buying one, and can see that prices are starting to firm up a little bit, or at least the depreciation has slowed.
Recently the missus decided she fancied a new car to replace her 330ci, a soft top was mentioned, and looking at around a £6k budget I was pretty keen on a Boxster. Lots of car for not too much money, yes they possibly need more money spent in maintenance compared to younger alternatives (MX5, S2k, Z4), but I spanner my own cars, so not too worried there - also have an old friend who runs a Porsche & VW garage.
Trouble is, said missus didn't like the idea of a Boxster (she'll be using it for her daily commute), and looks like we will be buying a mk3 2.0 MX5.... nice enough car, drives well, but just doesn't seem special enough to me and the itch for a Boxster is strong.
Part of me thought, f
k it, I'll just buy myself a Boxster come winter time, when they're maybe a touch cheaper, we'll just have to have two roadsters between us!
But then my sensible head started looking at 944's again, can't afford a nice Turbo, but £3-4k seems to get something decent nowadays, either a tidy 2.5/2.7 or S, or maybe an S2.
For those that have owned or driven both (I've only ever driven a 986 2.5 and 986 3.2S) - what would you suggest? How do they compare? Are the 944's starting to feel particuarly leggy now? Is there realistically much difference in maintenance costs?
Is even a lowly 2.5 944 exciting enough, straight line speed isn't everything, and I enjoyed the 2.5 Boxster more than I expected.
The 'proper' Porsche engine in the 986 is a bit of a plus, as well as being a much more modern car, a bit more focused maybe? But then the 944 has a great muscular look, must have hit the bottom of it's depreciation curve, relatively simple to look after, and is a little more practical.
Can't comment on the drive, as I've never even been in a 944. Steering feel of the 986 was nice, if a little fidgety (although both had 18's) - gearshift in the 2.5 felt a bit vague, whereas the 3.2S (it was a special edition 550 one) had a very tight short shift - 2.5 was quick enough once wound up, and sounded great, as did the S.
Decisions, decisions!!
Decisions, decisions.
However, never got around to buying one, and can see that prices are starting to firm up a little bit, or at least the depreciation has slowed.
Recently the missus decided she fancied a new car to replace her 330ci, a soft top was mentioned, and looking at around a £6k budget I was pretty keen on a Boxster. Lots of car for not too much money, yes they possibly need more money spent in maintenance compared to younger alternatives (MX5, S2k, Z4), but I spanner my own cars, so not too worried there - also have an old friend who runs a Porsche & VW garage.
Trouble is, said missus didn't like the idea of a Boxster (she'll be using it for her daily commute), and looks like we will be buying a mk3 2.0 MX5.... nice enough car, drives well, but just doesn't seem special enough to me and the itch for a Boxster is strong.
Part of me thought, f
k it, I'll just buy myself a Boxster come winter time, when they're maybe a touch cheaper, we'll just have to have two roadsters between us!But then my sensible head started looking at 944's again, can't afford a nice Turbo, but £3-4k seems to get something decent nowadays, either a tidy 2.5/2.7 or S, or maybe an S2.
For those that have owned or driven both (I've only ever driven a 986 2.5 and 986 3.2S) - what would you suggest? How do they compare? Are the 944's starting to feel particuarly leggy now? Is there realistically much difference in maintenance costs?
Is even a lowly 2.5 944 exciting enough, straight line speed isn't everything, and I enjoyed the 2.5 Boxster more than I expected.
The 'proper' Porsche engine in the 986 is a bit of a plus, as well as being a much more modern car, a bit more focused maybe? But then the 944 has a great muscular look, must have hit the bottom of it's depreciation curve, relatively simple to look after, and is a little more practical.
Can't comment on the drive, as I've never even been in a 944. Steering feel of the 986 was nice, if a little fidgety (although both had 18's) - gearshift in the 2.5 felt a bit vague, whereas the 3.2S (it was a special edition 550 one) had a very tight short shift - 2.5 was quick enough once wound up, and sounded great, as did the S.
Decisions, decisions!!
Decisions, decisions.
One of the porsche mags had an article on this exact proposition so might be worth seeking it out. I have owned a 944 s2 and I thought it was a great car for the money and build quality is from the pre accountant driven days. Watch out though they can cost a bit to keep in good nick (£2k a year in a slush fund should cove it). I don't know much about the boxster as they don't really interest me. I prefer look of the 987 onwards.
Personally, I obviously have a thing for the RWD, front-engined cars. The 944 is a pretty perfect way to own that layout; a compromise between quality, driving experience, costs, image etc. If you want one, then do a LOT od research, as the different models vary so much in what they offer.
A Boxster for 944 money? I think you would have to go in with either a great big reserve fund, or treat it as "if it breaks, it's sold for parts". Phenomenal cars, but they aren't as well made. Get lucky and you've got the bargain of the century, but if you get all the weak points failing at once you're in trouble.
As driving cars, they just aren't the same so don't compare them IMO. A 944 is only an evolution of a 1970s design, and as such it's refreshingly free from electronic "aids", and fantastic fun. The Boxster is leagues ahead in refinement and feels decades newer, but it's not got that "classic" something for me; it's just another silver car amongst thousands of others. Not trying to upset Boxster owners, just that bit extra that makes you feel like you're driving something rarer, and if you get the nod from another driver it's because you've made a choice only a few will appreciate. That makes it very special.
A Boxster for 944 money? I think you would have to go in with either a great big reserve fund, or treat it as "if it breaks, it's sold for parts". Phenomenal cars, but they aren't as well made. Get lucky and you've got the bargain of the century, but if you get all the weak points failing at once you're in trouble.
As driving cars, they just aren't the same so don't compare them IMO. A 944 is only an evolution of a 1970s design, and as such it's refreshingly free from electronic "aids", and fantastic fun. The Boxster is leagues ahead in refinement and feels decades newer, but it's not got that "classic" something for me; it's just another silver car amongst thousands of others. Not trying to upset Boxster owners, just that bit extra that makes you feel like you're driving something rarer, and if you get the nod from another driver it's because you've made a choice only a few will appreciate. That makes it very special.
I've not had a huge amount of experience of 944s, never driven on but a couple of my friends have and they were ok as a passenger. The above comments seem fair.
My only comment, having recently been guiding my father through the 986 buying process (and having had one myself in the past) i'd say don't expect much of 986 for £6-7k. I'm like you and do spanner my cars, so certain things don't worry me too much, but we found that most of not all of the cheaper end of the 986 market was tatty and neglected and when you're taking bodywork and interior it starts to become a chore and/or expensive to bring back to acceptable standards.
It depends I suppose what you want in terms of condition, but personally I like my cars to be mechanically AND cosmetically good (not necessarily perfect) and I didn't see one 986 at that price that I would say was acceptable. We ended up spending £9.5k for a good honest well looked after car.
My only comment, having recently been guiding my father through the 986 buying process (and having had one myself in the past) i'd say don't expect much of 986 for £6-7k. I'm like you and do spanner my cars, so certain things don't worry me too much, but we found that most of not all of the cheaper end of the 986 market was tatty and neglected and when you're taking bodywork and interior it starts to become a chore and/or expensive to bring back to acceptable standards.
It depends I suppose what you want in terms of condition, but personally I like my cars to be mechanically AND cosmetically good (not necessarily perfect) and I didn't see one 986 at that price that I would say was acceptable. We ended up spending £9.5k for a good honest well looked after car.
944 - get the later curved dash ones, post '86, WITH PAS.
They all do have a "proper" Porsche engine too, they are not 924s.
Wonderfully torquey.
Used to have an early 2.5 (non PAS) and really, the 165bhp quoted is meaningless, feels like there is a lot more because of the torque.
Driving one, you can feel that you have a "big" engine there even when simply pulling away, even though it really is not. You must experience it to understand what I mean. It's been a while now, but I do know that my 3.6 911 Turbo does not offer the same sort of immediately "muscular" feedback. Till you get a move on, of course ;-)
Lots of feel good factor in a 944.
But steering without PAS heavy even on the move and today the early 924 style dash looks far too 70s (prone to splitting too). Hence recommending a post 86 car.
I wrote mine off at 85k miles (ooops...) and the cylinder bores were showing ZERO signs of wear.
At the same money I would think the 944 a better bet but it's all subjective and personal, no doubt some will disagree.
They all do have a "proper" Porsche engine too, they are not 924s.
Wonderfully torquey.
Used to have an early 2.5 (non PAS) and really, the 165bhp quoted is meaningless, feels like there is a lot more because of the torque.
Driving one, you can feel that you have a "big" engine there even when simply pulling away, even though it really is not. You must experience it to understand what I mean. It's been a while now, but I do know that my 3.6 911 Turbo does not offer the same sort of immediately "muscular" feedback. Till you get a move on, of course ;-)
Lots of feel good factor in a 944.
But steering without PAS heavy even on the move and today the early 924 style dash looks far too 70s (prone to splitting too). Hence recommending a post 86 car.
I wrote mine off at 85k miles (ooops...) and the cylinder bores were showing ZERO signs of wear.
At the same money I would think the 944 a better bet but it's all subjective and personal, no doubt some will disagree.
Edited by 996TT02 on Tuesday 14th May 22:52
I've owned a 944S, TurboS and S2, and now own a 2.7 Box. I agree with previous comments that the 944 series cars were very well built with a feeling of solidity that is now missing. The 944 is now an old car and running costs will likely be significantly higher as parts wear out and then of course there is the dreaded rust, which I'm sure you've read about. I loved the time I spent with my S and Turbo but wasn't as enamoured with the S2, which I thought was just a bit dull.
The Box does feel a lot more modern and is basically just a lot of fun to drive and own, IMO. It's so agile, has light but accurate controls, makes a nice sound, has two reasonable boots and low running costs.
Having said all that, the 944's engine is pretty bulletproof as long as you stay on top of timing belt (and chain if fitted) maintenance, whereas the early water-cooled cars have well documented engine issues that could generate a large bill.
The Box does feel a lot more modern and is basically just a lot of fun to drive and own, IMO. It's so agile, has light but accurate controls, makes a nice sound, has two reasonable boots and low running costs.
Having said all that, the 944's engine is pretty bulletproof as long as you stay on top of timing belt (and chain if fitted) maintenance, whereas the early water-cooled cars have well documented engine issues that could generate a large bill.
If you can stretch to this it might be a great middle ground between the Boxster and the 944. It belonged to an ex porsche968uk.co.uk member who has nothing but good to say about it.....
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Having owned both a 986 and a 968, I would have to agree that the 986 engine feels more special to me because of the flat 6 howl. But the 944/968 is better built, better round corners, far more rewarding to drive and just a more involving ownership proposition. You are likely to spend a bit more refreshing parts on the 944/968 than the 986 because of age, but the 986 is far more bork factor.
Also, wouldnt suggest spending 3-4K on a 986. If you are after a 944/968 buy 100% on condition, forget the mileage.
Hope that helps.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Having owned both a 986 and a 968, I would have to agree that the 986 engine feels more special to me because of the flat 6 howl. But the 944/968 is better built, better round corners, far more rewarding to drive and just a more involving ownership proposition. You are likely to spend a bit more refreshing parts on the 944/968 than the 986 because of age, but the 986 is far more bork factor.
Also, wouldnt suggest spending 3-4K on a 986. If you are after a 944/968 buy 100% on condition, forget the mileage.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the comments, I suppose I was less trying to compare them as cars, but compare them as money better spent maybe.
After thinking about it a bit longer, I think I'm going to go down the 944 route. I would have been stretching myself a couple of grand further to get an entry level Boxster, and tbh, as much as I'd like one, having two roadsters will be a little impractical - besides, I have wanted a 944 for years, never got around to buying one, so why not!!
I've read the Peter Morgan guide cover to cover many times, so I hopefully know what to look for!!
Trouble I'm having now, is either settling for a tidy 2.5 or 2.7 Lux, or an S2 needing some TLC. Ideally I'll be spending around £3k.
I'd love a Turbo really, but won't have the funds to stretch to £5k+ after buying the missus' new car. Besides, I'm guessing £5k is pretty entry level for a Turbo now anyway.
I used to fancy the underdog, and always fancied a S, after seeing some graphs it always looked like the apparent lack of torque of the 16V motor was more down to feel than figures, although the gearing is different. But mentions of the individual parts for this model (and partly the 2.7), means sensible spending is probably the 8v Lux, or go for the S2.
No point getting too carried away yet, need to sort out the new soft top for the other half first, then I can start looking for a 944!
After thinking about it a bit longer, I think I'm going to go down the 944 route. I would have been stretching myself a couple of grand further to get an entry level Boxster, and tbh, as much as I'd like one, having two roadsters will be a little impractical - besides, I have wanted a 944 for years, never got around to buying one, so why not!!
I've read the Peter Morgan guide cover to cover many times, so I hopefully know what to look for!!
Trouble I'm having now, is either settling for a tidy 2.5 or 2.7 Lux, or an S2 needing some TLC. Ideally I'll be spending around £3k.
I'd love a Turbo really, but won't have the funds to stretch to £5k+ after buying the missus' new car. Besides, I'm guessing £5k is pretty entry level for a Turbo now anyway.
I used to fancy the underdog, and always fancied a S, after seeing some graphs it always looked like the apparent lack of torque of the 16V motor was more down to feel than figures, although the gearing is different. But mentions of the individual parts for this model (and partly the 2.7), means sensible spending is probably the 8v Lux, or go for the S2.
No point getting too carried away yet, need to sort out the new soft top for the other half first, then I can start looking for a 944!
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