What pads & fluid for occasional track use?
Discussion
I'm planning on doing a couple of trackdays in my Gen 1 Cayman S and was wondering what brake pads and brake fluid is commonly used.
The car is my daily drive so I don't want to use silicon fluid or pads that are too track focused. I was thinking along the lines of Pagids 4's and ATE Super Blue fluid.
Also, does anyone know how much fluid I'll need to do a full change?
The car is my daily drive so I don't want to use silicon fluid or pads that are too track focused. I was thinking along the lines of Pagids 4's and ATE Super Blue fluid.
Also, does anyone know how much fluid I'll need to do a full change?
The solid solution for the oiling is to run dual scavenge oil pumps on the heads. These scavenge from the far corners off the engine where the oil pools under high load/extended cornering.
I had a built out race spec 996 3.4 engine with these fitted some years ago and it made a big difference. No need for sump extensions and accusumps. Just do it right.
Ref the brake systems. You need about a litre to flush through completely. Clutch uses the same reservoir btw so you will need more if you are going to flush it through too.
ATE super blue used to be factory fill before they cheapened up. I always thought it was very good for the use you seem to be wanting.
Plenty of pad flavours, you can't run anything too aggressive because of ABS and tyre choice so these will all be fine on the street too.
I had a built out race spec 996 3.4 engine with these fitted some years ago and it made a big difference. No need for sump extensions and accusumps. Just do it right.
Ref the brake systems. You need about a litre to flush through completely. Clutch uses the same reservoir btw so you will need more if you are going to flush it through too.
ATE super blue used to be factory fill before they cheapened up. I always thought it was very good for the use you seem to be wanting.
Plenty of pad flavours, you can't run anything too aggressive because of ABS and tyre choice so these will all be fine on the street too.
fioran0 said:
The solid solution for the oiling is to run dual scavenge oil pumps on the heads. These scavenge from the far corners off the engine where the oil pools under high load/extended cornering.
I had a built out race spec 996 3.4 engine with these fitted some years ago and it made a big difference. No need for sump extensions and accusumps. Just do it right.
Ref the brake systems. You need about a litre to flush through completely. Clutch uses the same reservoir btw so you will need more if you are going to flush it through too.
ATE super blue used to be factory fill before they cheapened up. I always thought it was very good for the use you seem to be wanting.
Plenty of pad flavours, you can't run anything too aggressive because of ABS and tyre choice so these will all be fine on the street too.
Neil, I understand where you're coming from regarding the use of scavenge pumps in the heads to combat oil surge, in fact I think this is one of the mods they did to the dfi engine. For the limited track use I intend to give the car, however, together with the fact that I shall not be using anything more sticky than Pilot Super Sports, I'm prepared to take the risk. As I said previously, I only intend to do a couple of track days a year as I get my 'track fix' doing MSA sprints and hill climbs in my Evo which has been specifically prepared for these events. I had a built out race spec 996 3.4 engine with these fitted some years ago and it made a big difference. No need for sump extensions and accusumps. Just do it right.
Ref the brake systems. You need about a litre to flush through completely. Clutch uses the same reservoir btw so you will need more if you are going to flush it through too.
ATE super blue used to be factory fill before they cheapened up. I always thought it was very good for the use you seem to be wanting.
Plenty of pad flavours, you can't run anything too aggressive because of ABS and tyre choice so these will all be fine on the street too.
Trev450 said:
I'm planning on doing a couple of trackdays in my Gen 1 Cayman S and was wondering what brake pads and brake fluid is commonly used.
The car is my daily drive so I don't want to use silicon fluid or pads that are too track focused. I was thinking along the lines of Pagids 4's and ATE Super Blue fluid.
Also, does anyone know how much fluid I'll need to do a full change?
In your position I would make sure the fluid is fresh and of a reputable standard. ATE is great and Motul RBF600 is slightly better but slightly more ££`s. Then , all you have to worry about is how aggressive you want the track pad to be as there are many out there to choose from. Have you considered swapping pads out for purpose i.e. dropping the trackpads in just for the trackday ? The car is my daily drive so I don't want to use silicon fluid or pads that are too track focused. I was thinking along the lines of Pagids 4's and ATE Super Blue fluid.
Also, does anyone know how much fluid I'll need to do a full change?
I've tracked my 911 a few times.
Pads: PF08 last a very long time and never had fade, well priced too. Noisy on road but fine from cold.
Fluid: stock, again never had fade.
Disc: stock turbo disc all round, again fine and cheap.
Oil: thicker oil like 10W-50 and over fill by around 300-400ml so all bars lit up on oil level.
Car's been superb and done a 1:23 in traffic at Donnington, very reasonable and fingers crossed zero issues.
Pads: PF08 last a very long time and never had fade, well priced too. Noisy on road but fine from cold.
Fluid: stock, again never had fade.
Disc: stock turbo disc all round, again fine and cheap.
Oil: thicker oil like 10W-50 and over fill by around 300-400ml so all bars lit up on oil level.
Car's been superb and done a 1:23 in traffic at Donnington, very reasonable and fingers crossed zero issues.
mrdemon said:
I know the guys in the states swap pads, but pads like pagid need transfer and it's all part of working in higher temps.
Swapping pads for a track day is not worth it imo, you will not get the performance from them
I think provided you bed them in properly which wont take long on a track then the best can be extracted from them. I am going to try it out for the first time in 2 days time so will find out first hand.Swapping pads for a track day is not worth it imo, you will not get the performance from them
Otherwise , its a compromise. What is beneficial on track ( aggressive bite and not worried about dust or noise ) is not good for road ( where you want quiet , dust less and not so aggressive pads ).
Swapping is the only way to get the best of both worlds - provided it works that is. The only factory fit solution that I have used which was superb for both road and occasional track was the PCCB fitted to my GT3 ( ignoring all the tinternet bull about being fragile for track )
I don't think the track is the best place to properly bed in pads...haev a read of pagid's bed in process - it works.
I ran PF01 in my GT3 - great pad - and I never had squeal on the road - bit grabby from stone cold, but great when warm to hot.
Fluid - castrol react SRF, great but £££
other than that any of the big brand stuff - motul are good vfm
other than that - I wouldn't do anything else - a few track days is hardly going to hurt the car
I ran PF01 in my GT3 - great pad - and I never had squeal on the road - bit grabby from stone cold, but great when warm to hot.
Fluid - castrol react SRF, great but £££
other than that any of the big brand stuff - motul are good vfm
other than that - I wouldn't do anything else - a few track days is hardly going to hurt the car
red997 said:
I don't think the track is the best place to properly bed in pads...haev a read of pagid's bed in process - it works.
I'm guessing Far Cough was suggesting that the track pads be dropped in before leaving home for the track day. That way there is plenty of time to bed them in. This is what I do with mine. I drop them in a day or two before, go for a bedding in run out (Pagid process style as you say) and then set off for the track day with them all ready.I have been told that the pagid pad is very tricky though, and so having a disk a which has got the old pad material upsets what you are trying to gain with a Pagid in the 1st place.
to a point where some even state a Pagid pad will never perform on a disk which has had other pads on it unless skimmed.
I was told not to even fit pagids onto my disks without skimming them 1st, but I did any way and they were fine.
to quote Pagids bedding in page as every one is doing :-) the bottom you will read
"Do not use discs, which have been used with friction material other than PAGID."
pagid need to transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disk to meet specs, so to keep swapping out pads seems daft when they are £400 and you are buying them to stop fade etc.
to a point where some even state a Pagid pad will never perform on a disk which has had other pads on it unless skimmed.
I was told not to even fit pagids onto my disks without skimming them 1st, but I did any way and they were fine.
to quote Pagids bedding in page as every one is doing :-) the bottom you will read
"Do not use discs, which have been used with friction material other than PAGID."
pagid need to transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disk to meet specs, so to keep swapping out pads seems daft when they are £400 and you are buying them to stop fade etc.
boxsey said:
I'm guessing Far Cough was suggesting that the track pads be dropped in before leaving home for the track day. That way there is plenty of time to bed them in. This is what I do with mine. I drop them in a day or two before, go for a bedding in run out (Pagid process style as you say) and then set off for the track day with them all ready.
Yes. Spot on. Glad to hear the system works as I hope it will. For pagid to state that no other pad should be used sounds like marketing to me and use this to push more of their product. I don't doubt they are good pads but I prefer not to pay boutique prices for equally as good products.
To the OP - if the trackdays are really that few and far between I'd stick with oem making sure the fluid is freshly flushed and see how they cope. Then after decide if you need to take the next step.
Far Cough said:
To the OP - if the trackdays are really that few and far between I'd stick with oem making sure the fluid is freshly flushed and see how they cope. Then after decide if you need to take the next step.
That actually is my plan, but I wanted people's opinions on what pads to use should I need to change them. mrdemon said:
I have been told that the pagid pad is very tricky though, and so having a disk a which has got the old pad material upsets what you are trying to gain with a Pagid in the 1st place.
to a point where some even state a Pagid pad will never perform on a disk which has had other pads on it unless skimmed.
I was told not to even fit pagids onto my disks without skimming them 1st, but I did any way and they were fine.
to quote Pagids bedding in page as every one is doing :-) the bottom you will read
"Do not use discs, which have been used with friction material other than PAGID."
pagid need to transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disk to meet specs, so to keep swapping out pads seems daft when they are £400 and you are buying them to stop fade etc.
I have Textars for the road and used Pagid RS15 greys for a period of time. I would put the Pagids in and go out for the bedding in run - 6 x stops from 60 to 10 and then 6 x stops from about 80 to 20. Each stop being hard but not so hard that the ABS cuts in. On the first stop the pedal would be very soft and no initial bite. By the last stop the pedal was nice and firm with incredible initial bite. This indicated to me that the bedding process does indeed work and that pad transfer had taken place despite another compound already being on the discs.to a point where some even state a Pagid pad will never perform on a disk which has had other pads on it unless skimmed.
I was told not to even fit pagids onto my disks without skimming them 1st, but I did any way and they were fine.
to quote Pagids bedding in page as every one is doing :-) the bottom you will read
"Do not use discs, which have been used with friction material other than PAGID."
pagid need to transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disk to meet specs, so to keep swapping out pads seems daft when they are £400 and you are buying them to stop fade etc.
I've actually stopped using the RS15s now because they munch discs for fun, they're very expensive and I was getting lazy about changing them out....especially when there was only a few weeks between trackdays. So at the moment I've added some brake cooling and will be trying the Textars on track to see how they hold up. If I don't like how they perform I may try something like Ferodo DS2500 and if they're no good, go back to swapping pads but try Pagid RS29 this time. I've also used Hawk blues which for me were the best performing pad I've tried on track but have now given up on them because the dust is very nasty.
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