911 (997.2) - Manual or Automatic

[Bosco]

Guys,

I’ve read 80 odd pages of the forums doing my research and need a little advice.

I have a 2006 Boxster and I’m looking into buying a 911 (997.2) Coupe circa £50k. I like the 997.2 shape better than the 991 and I’ve taken on board the various changes introduced with the newer car – ultimately the styling kills it for me and I think the 997.2 will be a classic.

I’ve found a couple of manual cars and I am just looking at the finances and whether to part with my car (which would be sad).

I’ve driven a manual, but not the automatic. I had been thinking of a manual car given the pleasure of changing gears, but wonder re the merits of the DBK?

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers.

[MrTickle]

I had a 2010 PDK and now have a 2011 GTS Manual.

IMO: The PDK is a great 'box - fantastic tech and will be faster to drive. The manual is more 'engaging' as a driving option and combined with the sports exhaust (a must) allows you to blip the throttle etc. for fun

Jury is out on the 991 Manual, as it is (in effect) a converted PDK 'box and seems a little compromised.

[Bosco]

MrTickle said:

I had a 2010 PDK and now have a 2011 GTS Manual.

IMO: The PDK is a great 'box - fantastic tech and will be faster to drive. The manual is more 'engaging' as a driving option and combined with the sports exhaust (a must) allows you to blip the throttle etc. for fun

Jury is out on the 991 Manual, as it is (in effect) a converted PDK 'box and seems a little compromised.

Thank you Mr Tickle.

I'll test drive a PDK, There seem to be way more of them on the market.

[sidicks]

Bosco said:

I'll test drive a PDK, There seem to be way more of them on the market.

The PDK is NOT an automatic!

[Magic919]

Oh no, they've escaped from the GT3 thread.

[mrsdemon]

Personally not a fan of the automatic DBK, give me a stick and three pedals any day

[mollytherocker]

sidicks said:

The PDK is NOT an automatic!

Er, it is.

[OggyDJ]

sidicks said:

Bosco said:

I'll test drive a PDK, There seem to be way more of them on the market.

The PDK is NOT an automatic!

Porsche seem to think it is...

http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/clients.show_ca...

The one I had for a few days changed gears all on its own without me having to do anything....kind of automatically even !

You'll be telling us the Pope is not Catholic next

[Boo152]

OggyDJ said:

You'll be telling us Pope is not Catholic next

Dont know his religion, just know he is a knowledgable poster on here who works for an opc...

[Cobnapint]

Boo152 said:

Dont know his religion, just know he is a knowledgable poster on here who works for an opc...

You need to insert the words 'not very' between 'a' and 'knowledgable', and the words 'quite unbelievably' between 'who' and 'works' in your sentence above.

I think what he's getting at is it doesn't have a torque converter like traditional autos - but you knew that anyway (I hope).

I've owned a manual 997.1 C2S, a PDK 997.2 C4S Cab, and driven a manual 997.2 C2S, and tbh, it all depends on where you use the car. If it's all town use then the PDK will save the tedium of traffic jam clutch operation, although the 997.2 seems a bit lighter and much less of an issue than it is in the 997.1. The performance is always be instantly accessable too - the PDK, although generally quick, does seem a little slow witted at the lower end of the rev range sometimes and can be quite frustrating by ending up leaving you with less torque on occassions when you really needed the goods.
And pressing the sport button just makes the ride intollerable and the gear changes too snatchy and jerky for town use.

The manual feels alive and bloody quick at all times, but can wear you out a bit if all you want to do is waft.

Horses for courses really.

[sidicks]

mollytherocker said:

Er, it is.

Isn't it classed as an automated manual, as there is no torque converter?

[Fpaskell]

Regarding the sport option on PDK; it does firm up the ride but you can cancel that assuming you have the dynamic chassis to begin with. When i want to press on I used PDK with sport minus the hard ride, which is nearly perfect. Its a bit waring around town however when PDK is best left in standard setting. PDK also adapts to the driving- once it senses you are pressing on, even in standard, it hold onto gears more. For me, 90% of the time PDK is brilliant. Only very occasionally do i wish i had a manual (to blip the throttle). There are manual options with PDK- no one seems to mention these - you can shift with the buttons/ paddles or with the gear lever. The manual gear box will be a little lighter, but on the whole if you have to use any roads which tend to clog up (dont most of them some of the time?) PDK is a great solution. I dont call it automatic as the association with automatic implies a torque converter which slurs the gear change. PDK is nothing like an traditional automatic, for those that have not compared them. The PDK in 991 is an improvement on the 997 in my view- nearly perfect.

[hotpowner]

I ve just had a PDK loan car whilst my gen 1 car was serviced and loved it
car seemed more economical than my manual gen 1 car

Theres a lovely 3000 mile car at Stirling where I bought mine for a little over £50,000


http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

[stoneleigh]

If you are concerned about residual after you've had your fun, suggest the PDK. They massively outstrip manual sales now, and when you come to sell your car the demand will be higher still. I have PDK 997 and it's fabulous. The sport and sport+ mode give you a great driving experience too, but of course you have full manual control with the stick or the shifts on the steering wheel. There is probably a sports wheel with the paddles rather than the buttons if you want that extra racing feel to it. You can retro-fit in a carrera - assume same for yours. This wheel lacks any of the multi-function buttons though, so is a compromise.
Andy

[stoneleigh]

If you are concerned about residual after you've had your fun, suggest the PDK. They massively outstrip manual sales now, and when you come to sell your car the demand will be higher still. I have PDK 997 and it's fabulous. The sport and sport+ mode give you a great driving experience too, but of course you have full manual control with the stick or the shifts on the steering wheel. There is probably a sports wheel with the paddles rather than the buttons if you want that extra racing feel to it. You can retro-fit in a carrera - assume same for yours. This wheel lacks any of the multi-function buttons though, so is a compromise.
Andy

[stoneleigh]

If you are concerned about residual after you've had your fun, suggest the PDK. They massively outstrip manual sales now, and when you come to sell your car the demand will be higher still. I have PDK 997 and it's fabulous. The sport and sport+ mode give you a great driving experience too, but of course you have full manual control with the stick or the shifts on the steering wheel. There is probably a sports wheel with the paddles rather than the buttons if you want that extra racing feel to it. You can retro-fit in a carrera - assume same for yours. This wheel lacks any of the multi-function buttons though, so is a compromise.
Andy

[shoestring7]

sidicks said:

Bosco said:

I'll test drive a PDK, There seem to be way more of them on the market.

The PDK is NOT an automatic!

SS7

[Technomad]

I drove both, extensively and finally - after much dithering - went for a manual with short shift kit: the PDK is fantastic but I didn't buy a 911 for convenience, I bought it for involvement and for the need to get (and then keep) my own skills up to scratch. My final call was the manual and I'm very pleased I did - I probably get my heel'n'toe downshifts matched properly about 1/3 of the time, but it's immensely satisfying when I do. OTOH, I don't live in or near a city and I'm not trying to set lap records anywhere - for both of those, the slightly more detached and clinical efficiency of the PDK would serve you well.

BTW, if you do go for a manual, be particularly careful the check the DME over-rev printout.

Good luck, and enjoy the ride!

[Bosco]

Thanks for all the comments... really helpful.

The car at Stirlings does look lovely, though I'm still minded to get a manual.

I found a series of videos on You tube by 'The Getawayer' which are really helpful in understanding the PDK. He is a German fella giving really good reviews.

[thegoose]

stoneleigh said:

If you are concerned about residual after you've had your fun, suggest the PDK. They massively outstrip manual sales now, and when you come to sell your car the demand will be higher still.

That advice is flawed I'm afraid, just the same as it would have been for Tiptronic cars previously, but probably more so given the lower proportion of manual vs PDK cars produced.

When a car is nearly new a lot of the extra cost of an auto box (of whatever type offered for the car in question) is retained (over 100% in the case of some cars e.g. 5 series, E class etc) because of comparison with cost new and also market demand i.e. most people order auto new, and most people buying nearly new want auto too. However, after a few years the profile of the average buyer, and their intended use of the car, changes, and an increasing proportion want a manual for the involvement - the reduced supply of these pushes up values compared to the more plentiful auto option. There will obviously be a tipping point at which values are the same, probably around 5-7 years old.

Have a look at how many "how easy is it to convert a Tiptronic 964 to manual" threads there are to get an idea of what I mean. Another unusual example I came across recently was a 2004 Mercedes ML diesel - every dealer in the land would run a mile from a manual one when new, nearly new, and even at a few years old. I took it in part exchange thinking it would be hard work to sell and in reality the phone rang off the hook as there was such a tiny number of manual cars for sale and clearly a comparatively high demand. If I get offered one again I'll jump at the chance, and for the same reason I bought a manual 2006 Shogun Elegance recently.