2.7 RS v 997 Turbo S
Discussion
Had the chance to drive both recently, courtesy of a good friend.
The Turbo 'S', I'd been in before and always admired. The performance reserves are just phenomenal, but I also love the way it drives. In 'sport' you can hustle it around country lanes and it feels quite nimble considering the sophisticated technical specification, and the engine tone has quite a sweet, if subdued, growl. It certainly feels like a real supercar that can be used any day, in any conditions, without putting a foot wrong. I guess it's really the consummate GT, ready to munch up the miles.
Side by side, the 2.7RS is such a 'cutie', but you can see the distinct lineage. At first, it's like going back in time - 40 years to be exact. This one is in lightweight spec and everything has been built for purpose, quite austere in fact. The doors shut with a metallic clank, and there's limited adjustment to the driving position, but it all fits well. The engine has a distinct, rattly/thrashy note with very little insulation. The gearbox feels a bit slow at first, especially after the comically quick PDK. But the view down through the front wings and the writhing, unassisted steering, make you feel directly connected to the road. The engine is a gem and spins up to the red line with amazing speed and a fabulous mechanical noise. It's actually a very enjoyable car to drive, and despite its value, I felt very confident to push hard as the steering, noise, throttle, handling all seems so well connected. The gearbox gets nicer when warm and, although you get the odd flat spots in the rev range and cackles and pops on lift off, the performance and handling are remarkable for such an old car.
Biggest difference over 40 years is the brakes. The RS has super braking, but you actually think about moving your foot across and the amount of pressure required. The Turbo has PCCBs, which are unfazed and must be the best brakes in the world - and need to be with all that performance.
I love the fact that the 911 is an evolving model range. The 2.7RS is such an amazing car for its time and I can appreciate now why it is so highly regarded and valued. The Turbo 'S' remains one of my favourites of the contemporary 911s, and I think I'd have one over a n/a 991. Be fascinating to see what the next Turbo 'S' will be like - but no doubt at a huge price.
Values and sentiment aside I couldn't say which is best - probably need both for the best of all worlds. Better start saving
The Turbo 'S', I'd been in before and always admired. The performance reserves are just phenomenal, but I also love the way it drives. In 'sport' you can hustle it around country lanes and it feels quite nimble considering the sophisticated technical specification, and the engine tone has quite a sweet, if subdued, growl. It certainly feels like a real supercar that can be used any day, in any conditions, without putting a foot wrong. I guess it's really the consummate GT, ready to munch up the miles.
Side by side, the 2.7RS is such a 'cutie', but you can see the distinct lineage. At first, it's like going back in time - 40 years to be exact. This one is in lightweight spec and everything has been built for purpose, quite austere in fact. The doors shut with a metallic clank, and there's limited adjustment to the driving position, but it all fits well. The engine has a distinct, rattly/thrashy note with very little insulation. The gearbox feels a bit slow at first, especially after the comically quick PDK. But the view down through the front wings and the writhing, unassisted steering, make you feel directly connected to the road. The engine is a gem and spins up to the red line with amazing speed and a fabulous mechanical noise. It's actually a very enjoyable car to drive, and despite its value, I felt very confident to push hard as the steering, noise, throttle, handling all seems so well connected. The gearbox gets nicer when warm and, although you get the odd flat spots in the rev range and cackles and pops on lift off, the performance and handling are remarkable for such an old car.
Biggest difference over 40 years is the brakes. The RS has super braking, but you actually think about moving your foot across and the amount of pressure required. The Turbo has PCCBs, which are unfazed and must be the best brakes in the world - and need to be with all that performance.
I love the fact that the 911 is an evolving model range. The 2.7RS is such an amazing car for its time and I can appreciate now why it is so highly regarded and valued. The Turbo 'S' remains one of my favourites of the contemporary 911s, and I think I'd have one over a n/a 991. Be fascinating to see what the next Turbo 'S' will be like - but no doubt at a huge price.
Values and sentiment aside I couldn't say which is best - probably need both for the best of all worlds. Better start saving
Koln-RS said:
Values and sentiment aside I couldn't say which is best - probably need both for the best of all worlds. Better start saving
The TurboS is a really remarkable 911, and it continue to surprise me 5k miles on. I very almost bought a mint 2.7 a few years ago, but decided to go modern to meet my trackday hobby instead (got a GT3 for that). 40 years R&D means the game has moved on so much that one cannot compare their abilities, despite both wearing the 911 badge. A 2.7RS would be a brother to a TurboS in the garage that augments the 911 experience, and one that does not compete.
Schnellmann said:
nutcase said:
What are 2.7 RS's going for these days, £250k for a decent one?
North of £300k. I know of an excellent (history and condition) touring that sold last month for a little less than 250K.
Rarer M471 (lightweights) are more valuable - although I don't know by how much.
I recently enjoyed a pedal to the metal pax ride in a touring followed by a brief, driving miss daisy, go behind the wheel myself.
I was struck by the following:
- it felt fecking quick for a 40 y.o. car. Size, noise, the upright seating position and my expectations likely played a part in this.
The fact that no single element of the experience dominated; how in proportion to one another each of the important sensations seemed:
- Mid range torque plus top-end urge.
- Supple ride yet wonderfully responsive to direction change.
- Feelsome, talkative steering, nicely weighted (particularly once a bit of lock was wound on) and certainly not too darty. Getting back into the (KW V3 equipped) 996 RS straight afterwards with fast road geo felt (perhaps unsurprisingly) stiff and darty in comparison.
- Nice sound and not excessively loud. Significantly louder from the cabin than (standard plumbing) 996 RS.
- Lovely transition from grip to slip (witnessed from the pax seat!) as we exited a (dry) mini roundabout with 1/4 turn of opposite lock. Very big grins all round!
- Wonderfully small, with good visibility and easy to place.
- the brakes needed a good shove and performed fine. Neither of us used them hard though.
Please don't mistake this remark for damning it with feint praise but the only other car that felt so cohesive in terms of its engine / steering / chassis manners / size and fitness for purpose was the Pug 306 GTi6. I'm sure I've a less diverse experience than many on here from which to draw comparisons though.
Sorry if the above sounds all a bit 'generic car review'.
The experience certainly made me conclude it's deserving of it's status as an icon.
nutcase said:
That's a great analogy. Did you get rid of your Turbo S, Geneve?
Actually, just changing over. Since 1984 I've had a new 911 every 3 years as my personal road car. Had the Turbo S for 3 years, following 3 years with a GT3. Interestingly, the Turbo S completely changed my previous turbo/4wd/pdk prejudices. For regular, everyday driving it's been deeply impressive and I did consider keeping it for longer. Now with my OPC, and a veritable bargain for someone.
Geneve said:
Actually, just changing over.
Since 1984 I've had a new 911 every 3 years as my personal road car. Had the Turbo S for 3 years, following 3 years with a GT3. Interestingly, the Turbo S completely changed my previous turbo/4wd/pdk prejudices. For regular, everyday driving it's been deeply impressive and I did consider keeping it for longer. Now with my OPC, and a veritable bargain for someone.
If you don't mind me asking Geneve, which dealer is it with. In in negotiations on a Turbo S as we speak (Bassalt).Since 1984 I've had a new 911 every 3 years as my personal road car. Had the Turbo S for 3 years, following 3 years with a GT3. Interestingly, the Turbo S completely changed my previous turbo/4wd/pdk prejudices. For regular, everyday driving it's been deeply impressive and I did consider keeping it for longer. Now with my OPC, and a veritable bargain for someone.
I met JK at Hedingham last Sept - he's got three!
Here's one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_bQ0h85gY8
Here's one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_bQ0h85gY8
Cheib said:
They were £50k in 2002. I nearly bought one from Autofarm but the vendor they were selling on behalf of wanted £60k. They talked me out of it!
Interesting. I know someone that went to Autofarm at around that time to buy a rep and they persuaded him to buy a real RS. I think he got the better deal.Difficult to know where prices are but history, condition, originality plays a huge part with these cars. Didn't a viper green RS sell in Europe for Euro 400k recently?
Schnellmann said:
Cheib said:
They were £50k in 2002. I nearly bought one from Autofarm but the vendor they were selling on behalf of wanted £60k. They talked me out of it!
Interesting. I know someone that went to Autofarm at around that time to buy a rep and they persuaded him to buy a real RS. I think he got the better deal.Difficult to know where prices are but history, condition, originality plays a huge part with these cars. Didn't a viper green RS sell in Europe for Euro 400k recently?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Depends what you define as pleasurable. No modern Porsche can get close to the early 911s - particularly the RS - for steering feel (beautifully weighted) and lack of bulk / inertia, no matter how you tweak them. However later cars knock early 911s into a cocked hat in most other areas - but then you would expect them to.Declared interest: I have an early 911
anonymous said:
[redacted]
3.2 completely different helm thanks to being heavier and wider tyres. My 2.2 s weighs just 1067 kg with a full tank of fuel and runs on 185/70s. Well sorted 3.2 still good though - poorly set up ones are rough with steering that loads up too much on turn in.
Edited to add: Remember we are comparing apples and pears. I used to track a 996 GT3 and had a go in a Cayman R and a MX5 at Castle Combe at one meet. Both were a revelation but neither had anything like the character or soul of the GT3. In the same way shoes can be comfortable, cars can offer great drives, but there is a bit more to the overall experience than that.
Edited by drmark on Saturday 27th July 11:25
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That must have been a poor representation of the 3.2. Many are spoilt with bigger wheels and tyres. One of the very nicest 911s I've ever driven was the 3.2 Carrera 'Club Sport' - Factory lightened and optimised with 6"s & 7"s - beautiful car, super-crisp.Again, the 2.7RS, particularly the lwt M471 models, benefits from being little more than 1000kg, and most put out much better torque and power figs than quoted.
Maybe Cayman R is close contemporary, but Turbo S, is a very different class - epic capabilities though, and I think with the huge price gap between these and next year's new 991 Turbo S, they will be a popular buy in the used market.
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