The MANS prospective 991 GT3 owners Discussion thread...

[MCSL]

...with no talk of deviated stitching, embellishments, sequins, parking sensors etc etc



Rumors are that the 2015 RS could use a production version of the 4.0 RSR engine. And as expected - will be 30mm wider (turbo body). Shorter final drive, improved aero and stiffer suspension also to be expected.

Carry on...

[GT3SG]

MCSL said:

...with no talk of deviated stitching, embellishments, sequins, parking sensors etc etc



Rumors are that the 2015 RS could use a production version of the 4.0 RSR engine. And as expected - will be 30mm wider (turbo body). Shorter final drive, improved aero and stiffer suspension also to be expected.

Carry on...

Ah, salvation!! Now we're talking.

Been pressing my OPC for info on the RS but nothing to date, will be very interesting to see where they take this model.

God forbid it doesn't come with leather rear view mirror option.!

[juansolo]

If it's anything like past rumours, the reality will be a sticker pack, some things painted black and some more options available like heated steering wheels...

[Steve Rance]

Do we know when the racing version of the new engine is being launched? I suspect that Porsche would much prefer to keep the same unit for the 991RS. Not surprised about the shorter gearing. Typically it was the biggest single factor in relative performance gains in previous RS's over the standard GT3.

[MCSL]

juansolo said:

If it's anything like past rumours, the reality will be a sticker pack, some things painted black and some more options available like heated steering wheels...

I don't think you can say Porsche didn't deliver with the 7.2 RS - and this will be the benchmark for the 991 RS. It'd be nice if they do use a different engine type/spec, but my worry would be that could put the RS into a much bigger money bracket. Maybe they will save this for a 991 4.0 RS special?

[TheDeadPrussian]

I think given Porsche’s eulogising of the DFI engine and fulsome explanations of how it’s just as good as the Mezger (but definitely different from the ‘cooking’ version found in lesser non-GT3 models) it would be a marketing/engineering disaster to carryover the old engine in to the new RS and indeed the motorsport program beyond next year.

Using the ‘old’ Mezger based 4 litre engine would be tantamount to admitting defeat…

[Robbo66]

TheDeadPrussian said:

I think given Porsche’s eulogising of the DFI engine and fulsome explanations of how it’s just as good as the Mezger (but definitely different from the ‘cooking’ version found in lesser non-GT3 models) it would be a marketing/engineering disaster to carryover the old engine in to the new RS and indeed the motorsport program beyond next year.

Using the ‘old’ Mezger based 4 litre engine would be tantamount to admitting defeat…

Agree with that entirely. They have to move on, and would be very surprised if they took what would be tantamount to a backward step following all the PR on the new unit.

[Scott Parker]

All of them rumours are based around tweets from American sources so I would take with a great big pinch of salt. Pretty sure its going to be the turbo body maybe minus the ducts but that's about it as far as information goes apart from the obvious (lighter and sportier set up)

http://www.motorannex.com/news/2013/08/new-details...

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2013/8/4/Porsche-911-G...

http://www.leftlanenews.com/details-emerge-surroun...

Edited by Scott Parker on Tuesday 6th August 10:14

[fioran0]

MCSL said:

...with no talk of deviated stitching, embellishments, sequins, parking sensors etc etc



Rumors are that the 2015 RS could use a production version of the 4.0 RSR engine. And as expected - will be 30mm wider (turbo body). Shorter final drive, improved aero and stiffer suspension also to be expected.

Carry on...

The thing is, what does that even mean; a production version of the 4.0 RSR engine. Without even going into any detail at all; the 991 RSR uses a mezger engine with individual throttle bodies. Its a 30 hr engine on which the cost to refresh needs a large sponsorship programme. Playing along though, they keep the mezger and throttle body part but need to dumb it down sufficiently to increase longevity and driveability and decrease cost, how much RSR is even left in it? Enough that you can still claim this statement?
Porsche seem to enjoy grasping wildy for motorsport linkage almost as much as the journos love lapping it up these days. The crank in the 4.0 is one example, the centrelock wheels another so it would not surprise me at all if the 991 RS has a 4.0 capacity and porsche bang on about how the RSR is also 4.0 even though capacity is all they share.

This thread brings me nicely to something i was thinking about posting in the other GT3 thread.

Those buying the 991 GT3 are taking a car with an engine thats not yet been used in motorsport and with no history/lineage. This in itself is currently a footnote, even the mezger at one point was a new engine with no heritage or victories to its name however I am interested to know peoples thoughts on the new power plant and current lack of motorsport use, if indeed they have any. Do you feel like you are getting in at the ground floor on what will be a new chapter? Do you even care?
How would you feel if the "new" engine never makes it into a race car at all?
What if it only appears in the Cup and never the RSR, the cup after all is spec racing and could be done with C4 Cabs if porsche felt like it. Would this change your feelings on the car?
Ultimately whether it shares any DNA or not is irrelevant, the car has to be measured on its own merits and if it can stand up proudly on those then thats all that is important but given the historical link with the GT3 and the fact that its image is heavily invested in that link how much does one feel there needs to be of this in every car?
Is there enough of this inherent in the DNA of every GT3, as its understood by the majority that it now doesnt need be a direct and physical part of the car itself.
Perhaps the most important question of all, does a need to include actual and direct motorsport bits actually hinder the lines progress, growth and development? Freed from these shackles can the GT3 really jump forward. All of the features on the new GT3 that make it so fast havent come from lessons learned on a track after all.

The 991 RSR is currently homologated on the C4, hence the reason it isnt a GT3 RSR. Whats your views on that? Again its fundamentally irrelevant, homologation these days means so little any way in terms of the road car but does it impact the new cars brand?

My view is that for a long time there was a large overlap between "enthusiasts" and the buyers of new GT3s. This continues to shape the debate even though the reality is that this overlap is far less than it used to be. We are probably witnessing another "water cooled" moment in porsches history. FWIW, many "enthusiasts" seemed to simply use the "motorsport" link simply to impress folk in car parks and lacked even a basic understanding of the where,hows and whys. Much of the ongoing debate seems to flow along these lines. For my part, ive never been so overexposed (and over) any car in history as i have been this new GT3.

As for the future of porsche motorsport engines, i was told with authority that the next engine would be 8 cyl way back in early 2010. Everyone there scoffed, but that conversation still plays back as time goes on, as rumours come and go, as engines appear (or dont), as the 6 cyl is outgunned with ever increasing regularity and i wonder about that chat.
I also heard that there was a mezger being tested with DFI. Ive not seen it with my own eyes so a large pinch of salt needs to be taken but again of interest.

Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 6th August 12:33

[TheDeadPrussian]

I’ll try to keep it brief – but a lot to cover.

I do care about the GT3 (and indeed all Porsches) lineage and I do buy in to the whole ‘shaped by motorsport’ ethos. But, with the new GT3 – as you rightly point out – it has no direct racing heritage to speak of. However, I have no doubt that the DFI engine will make it in to motorsport soon – see my comments above as to my reasoning.

So, I suppose I do feel like I am ‘getting in at the ground floor’.

For the time being however, I am happy to be buying what is, by every journalistic measure so far, a fantastic sports car that few cars can match – motorsports linkages or not.

[ScienceTeacher]

People want to see DFI engines used in Motorsport as it shows that Porsche think the engine is up to it. Otherwise continuing to use the Mezger implies a lack of confidence in the basic architecture of the new unit. That's not good.

[mhh]

I'm not sure what a typical Porsche buyer looks like, but the 991 GT3 will be my third Porsche - after a C2S and Turbo S - and I couldn't care less about any Motorsport heritage. I'm just after a great driving experience.

[ScienceTeacher]

Hopefully one which does not involve chocolate engine lunches.

[mollytherocker]

fiorano - A lot of interesting points and questions, which raise many more questions!

I guess you are either interested in lineage, history, heritage, homoligation, proven motorsport success or you are not.

Does it matter that the new 991 GT3 has virtually no link with the 2013 991RSR?

I think it does, but that doesn't necessarily make it a worse or bad road car. I suppose, some could reasonably suggest that racing parts have no place on the road.

But is'nt that what a GT3 was? A racing car adjusted for the road? Is'nt that the draw? Otherwise, you would just buy a Carrera S, maybe with the power kit? That would be faster in most hands on real roads.

[sidicks]

mollytherocker said:

fiorano - A lot of interesting points and questions, which raise many more questions!

I guess you are either interested in lineage, history, heritage, homoligation, proven motorsport success or you are not.

Does it matter that the new 991 GT3 has virtually no link with the 2013 991RSR?

I think it does, but that doesn't necessarily make it a worse or bad road car. I suppose, some could reasonably suggest that racing parts have no place on the road.

But is'nt that what a GT3 was? A racing car adjusted for the road? Is'nt that the draw? Otherwise, you would just buy a Carrera S, maybe with the power kit? That would be faster in most hands on real roads.

IF the GT3 engine is NOT used for the 2014 racing season then that lineage is broken - that's not the message that has previously been given though...

[mollytherocker]

sidicks said:

IF the GT3 engine is NOT used for the 2014 racing season then that lineage is broken - that's not the message that has previously been given though...

Agreed, and I would be amazed if the new DFI wasn't used next year. Surely they have designed it to be the new Motorsport engine? It can't just be for the road GT3 can it?

[RSVP911]

mhh said:

I'm not sure what a typical Porsche buyer looks like, but the 991 GT3 will be my third Porsche - after a C2S and Turbo S - and I couldn't care less about any Motorsport heritage. I'm just after a great driving experience.

I have to say I echo this entirey - who cares about all the motor sport stuff - all the reviews are the same , if you don't care about the lack of a manual box ( which I don't) then this will be an amazing car lineage or not - to me it's a cheap ( in relative terms) supercar and I can't wait ! I realise these views are tantount to heracy , but again I don't really care about this either - why do do some people on this forum take it so seriously , it's just a fun car , that looks awesome and will be amazing to drive - end of

[Ekona]

RSVP911 said:

mhh said:

I'm not sure what a typical Porsche buyer looks like, but the 991 GT3 will be my third Porsche - after a C2S and Turbo S - and I couldn't care less about any Motorsport heritage. I'm just after a great driving experience.

I have to say I echo this entirey - who cares about all the motor sport stuff - all the reviews are the same , if you don't care about the lack of a manual box ( which I don't) then this will be an amazing car lineage or not - to me it's a cheap ( in relative terms) supercar and I can't wait ! I realise these views are tantount to heracy , but again I don't really care about this either - why do do some people on this forum take it so seriously , it's just a fun car , that looks awesome and will be amazing to drive - end of

Couldn't agree with these two points any more if I tried.

Spot-on, as likewise I couldn't care less if a car has motorsport pedigree or not: A good car is a good car, roots be damned. Whilst I'm sure it makes for knicker-dropping conversation when out on the pull, that you drive a car that shares an engine with a proper race car, as long as the drive is great then does it really matter?

The 991 GT3 is, for me, a massive step forward in terms of what a great and modern Porsche should be, and I'd like to see the RS take another leap forward on that.

[RSVP911]

RSVP911 said:

Ekona said:

Couldn't agree with these two points any more if I tried.

Spot-on, as likewise I couldn't care less if a car has motorsport pedigree or not: A good car is a good car, roots be damned. Whilst I'm sure it makes for knicker-dropping conversation when out on the pull, that you drive a car that shares an engine with a proper race car, as long as the drive is great then does it really matter?

The 991 GT3 is, for me, a massive step forward in terms of what a great and modern Porsche should be, and I'd like to see the RS take another leap forward on that.

Thanks - re the "knicker dropping comment" : As a happily married man of some significant years , these days are well behind me , however , I couldn't think of anything that would have had the opposite effect than me droning on about the sports pedigree of my Porsche - yawn !!!! This would only guarantee a lonely ride home in a taxi , back to a soulless empty OCD tidy one bedroom box ! My advice in this respect would always be to never mention your cool car - great surprise for later , plus extra points for being understated and modest in this respect , however , most importantly always ....... "make them laugh , make them laugh , make them laugh" ( jazz hands, etc !) )

[RSVP911]

RSVP911 said:

P.S love the fact we've just converted boring man forum into a dating tips blog ! : hilarious

Edited by RSVP911 on Wednesday 7th August 08:05