Walter Röhrl says
Discussion
that the only car without four wheel drive he respects (beside the Carrera GT) is a rear-engined Porsche. He says he has just bought a 1987 3.2 litre, and highlights the weight at 1200kg, no PAS, no A/C, no electronics and calls its engine one of the best Porsche ever built.
Note: he doesn't at all use the term "911". It goes without saying that the proper Porker is the beetle variant; although he was interviewed by a geek magazine rather than a magazine with petrolhead-only audience
What a class interview. I'd love to share it, but it's in German. www.heise.de/tr/artikel/51427/2
Asked if he favours turbo or n/a engined cars, he opts for turbo and draws the example that he uses the sixth gear in a turbo on the Autobahn, and drives to the Ring without touching the gear stick once. In the GT, he has to shift down three times after driving through road works at 60km/h, because a TDi is already tailgaiting him...
top fella!
Note: he doesn't at all use the term "911". It goes without saying that the proper Porker is the beetle variant; although he was interviewed by a geek magazine rather than a magazine with petrolhead-only audience
What a class interview. I'd love to share it, but it's in German. www.heise.de/tr/artikel/51427/2
Asked if he favours turbo or n/a engined cars, he opts for turbo and draws the example that he uses the sixth gear in a turbo on the Autobahn, and drives to the Ring without touching the gear stick once. In the GT, he has to shift down three times after driving through road works at 60km/h, because a TDi is already tailgaiting him...
top fella!
Bodo said:
Asked if he favours turbo or n/a engined cars, he opts for turbo and draws the example that he uses the sixth gear in a turbo on the Autobahn, and drives to the Ring without touching the gear stick once. In the GT, he has to shift down three times after driving through road works at 60km/h, because a TDi is already tailgaiting him...
Sounds like he's just about ripe for a S600 Merc
Reasonable humans will use 50 per cent of this car, will open the roof and will be pleased at the sovereignty and superiority. Such cars are not driven so much anyway, them are simply a demonstration, to which one is technically able today. No humans need a GT, but that is not also the topic. The development of high speed sports cars will run in my opinion apart. It will give cars for the road, and it will give these supercars for the race course, which one moves on weekend on a round course, only to the fun.
[ landing run. Remarkably, as comfortably a through-trained to drive grease-free car like the GT is. The complex Pushrod suspension is more friendly, small, short impacts about is behaviourless away-put. Also the engine convinced not only in light number of revolutions heights: Sixth gear, feel and sound themselves 1000 rpm still well. "an ingenious basic development", says Roehrl about originally for the running employment sketched the machine, "with which we had few problems." ]
If this car a kind terminator point represents: How can it continue from here?
I can imagine that marvelously: This car is smaller, around some more cheaply, that would be a beautiful basis for a sports car.
That can function: The GT make smaller and its character nevertheless received?
Yes, surely, somewhat narrow, shorter wheel base, more easily. The Boxster is in principle already very similar to the GT, because the system central engine always functions. If I want to make today sport equipment, I must look where the masses between the axles are, also at the risk to lose place.
The ideal weight for a sports car?
1100 Kilos would be a good value, in order to be sufficient for the safety and requirements for comfort. Fewer weights brings more performance, to less mass with accelerating, fewer centrifugal forces in the Kuve. If the weight is correct, also 300 HP are enough; there one can already act and have fun correctly.
Turbo or Normally Aspirated?
I would have to commit myself: Turbo. I am always an advocate of the loading, one can reduce capacity , win with consumption, exhaust gases, travelling comfort. With that 911 turbo I change into sixth gear on the motorway the and drive to the Nuerburgring, without seizing once to the shift lever. In the GT I must shift back after a building site with 60 km/h three times, because a TDI hangs in the tail .
All wheel or rear-wheel drive?
The GT has rear-wheel drive, because it was built with point of view engine haven and different this deep emphasis would be not possible. For all other cases, if it goes according to me: to always transfer all wheel, because one wins simply more possibilities, strength. The art is to arrange the all-wheel drive intelligently. It may not be too difficult. And it must develop traction despite sporty interpretation sufficiently. The only car, which I respect without all wheel, is a Porsche, by the tail engine. Privately I bought a straight 3.2-Litre-Porsche, class 1987, without an air conditioning system, still no electronics, to which engine belongs to the best one, are 1200 kilograms heavy, without power steering, what built Porsche ever.
Old Eleven as perspective for the future?
Yes, perhaps. On a weekend I drove for the first time thereby to hall brook. For conditions, how they are today on the road, that is always enough kmh, completely cleanly, with 231 HP goes it drives itself 150, 160 also well forward, if I on the gas steige, and after 330 kilometers is the tank straight times a third empty.
[ landing run. Remarkably, as comfortably a through-trained to drive grease-free car like the GT is. The complex Pushrod suspension is more friendly, small, short impacts about is behaviourless away-put. Also the engine convinced not only in light number of revolutions heights: Sixth gear, feel and sound themselves 1000 rpm still well. "an ingenious basic development", says Roehrl about originally for the running employment sketched the machine, "with which we had few problems." ]
If this car a kind terminator point represents: How can it continue from here?
I can imagine that marvelously: This car is smaller, around some more cheaply, that would be a beautiful basis for a sports car.
That can function: The GT make smaller and its character nevertheless received?
Yes, surely, somewhat narrow, shorter wheel base, more easily. The Boxster is in principle already very similar to the GT, because the system central engine always functions. If I want to make today sport equipment, I must look where the masses between the axles are, also at the risk to lose place.
The ideal weight for a sports car?
1100 Kilos would be a good value, in order to be sufficient for the safety and requirements for comfort. Fewer weights brings more performance, to less mass with accelerating, fewer centrifugal forces in the Kuve. If the weight is correct, also 300 HP are enough; there one can already act and have fun correctly.
Turbo or Normally Aspirated?
I would have to commit myself: Turbo. I am always an advocate of the loading, one can reduce capacity , win with consumption, exhaust gases, travelling comfort. With that 911 turbo I change into sixth gear on the motorway the and drive to the Nuerburgring, without seizing once to the shift lever. In the GT I must shift back after a building site with 60 km/h three times, because a TDI hangs in the tail .
All wheel or rear-wheel drive?
The GT has rear-wheel drive, because it was built with point of view engine haven and different this deep emphasis would be not possible. For all other cases, if it goes according to me: to always transfer all wheel, because one wins simply more possibilities, strength. The art is to arrange the all-wheel drive intelligently. It may not be too difficult. And it must develop traction despite sporty interpretation sufficiently. The only car, which I respect without all wheel, is a Porsche, by the tail engine. Privately I bought a straight 3.2-Litre-Porsche, class 1987, without an air conditioning system, still no electronics, to which engine belongs to the best one, are 1200 kilograms heavy, without power steering, what built Porsche ever.
Old Eleven as perspective for the future?
Yes, perhaps. On a weekend I drove for the first time thereby to hall brook. For conditions, how they are today on the road, that is always enough kmh, completely cleanly, with 231 HP goes it drives itself 150, 160 also well forward, if I on the gas steige, and after 330 kilometers is the tank straight times a third empty.
Melv said:
Reasonable humans will use 50 per cent of this car, will open the roof and will be pleased at the sovereignty and superiority. Such cars are not driven so much anyway, them are simply a demonstration, to which one is technically able today. No humans need a GT, but that is not also the topic. The development of high speed sports cars will run in my opinion apart. It will give cars for the road, and it will give these supercars for the race course, which one moves on weekend on a round course, only to the fun.
[ landing run. Remarkably, as comfortably a through-trained to drive grease-free car like the GT is. The complex Pushrod suspension is more friendly, small, short impacts about is behaviourless away-put. Also the engine convinced not only in light number of revolutions heights: Sixth gear, feel and sound themselves 1000 rpm still well. "an ingenious basic development", says Roehrl about originally for the running employment sketched the machine, "with which we had few problems." ]
If this car a kind terminator point represents: How can it continue from here?
I can imagine that marvelously: This car is smaller, around some more cheaply, that would be a beautiful basis for a sports car.
That can function: The GT make smaller and its character nevertheless received?
Yes, surely, somewhat narrow, shorter wheel base, more easily. The Boxster is in principle already very similar to the GT, because the system central engine always functions. If I want to make today sport equipment, I must look where the masses between the axles are, also at the risk to lose place.
The ideal weight for a sports car?
1100 Kilos would be a good value, in order to be sufficient for the safety and requirements for comfort. Fewer weights brings more performance, to less mass with accelerating, fewer centrifugal forces in the Kuve. If the weight is correct, also 300 HP are enough; there one can already act and have fun correctly.
Turbo or Normally Aspirated?
I would have to commit myself: Turbo. I am always an advocate of the loading, one can reduce capacity , win with consumption, exhaust gases, travelling comfort. With that 911 turbo I change into sixth gear on the motorway the and drive to the Nuerburgring, without seizing once to the shift lever. In the GT I must shift back after a building site with 60 km/h three times, because a TDI hangs in the tail .
All wheel or rear-wheel drive?
The GT has rear-wheel drive, because it was built with point of view engine haven and different this deep emphasis would be not possible. For all other cases, if it goes according to me: to always transfer all wheel, because one wins simply more possibilities, strength. The art is to arrange the all-wheel drive intelligently. It may not be too difficult. And it must develop traction despite sporty interpretation sufficiently. The only car, which I respect without all wheel, is a Porsche, by the tail engine. Privately I bought a straight 3.2-Litre-Porsche, class 1987, without an air conditioning system, still no electronics, to which engine belongs to the best one, are 1200 kilograms heavy, without power steering, what built Porsche ever.
Old Eleven as perspective for the future?
Yes, perhaps. On a weekend I drove for the first time thereby to hall brook. For conditions, how they are today on the road, that is always enough kmh, completely cleanly, with 231 HP goes it drives itself 150, 160 also well forward, if I on the gas steige, and after 330 kilometers is the tank straight times a third empty.
...errr...thanks! I hope you used one of those web-based automatic translator thingys - otherwise your school's German teacher needs to think about another career!
Sorry Melv, don't understand a word: was Uncle Walt's finishing school bombed during the war or something? "I have kipper mine engine transverse fast axle greasen ein 6th for rear is better Nordschleife schnell gruppen Waffen I much prefer trousers."
As ever, one of the great man's quotes seems about as apt as ever: "Why don't you talk properly?"
An interesting read,, i like the philosophy of 300bhp and 1100kg..exactly what I aim for
Not so sure on the Turbo side of things though, weight,lag etc...not required for 300bhp IMHO etc..
On the basis of this a Boxster coupe clubsport could be a very interesting proposition, if it ever happens.
Not so sure on the Turbo side of things though, weight,lag etc...not required for 300bhp IMHO etc..
On the basis of this a Boxster coupe clubsport could be a very interesting proposition, if it ever happens.
clubsport said:
An interesting read,, i like the philosophy of 300bhp and 1100kg..exactly what I aim for
Not so sure on the Turbo side of things though, weight,lag etc...not required for 300bhp IMHO etc..
On the basis of this a Boxster coupe clubsport could be a very interesting proposition, if it ever happens.
Exactly. I have a LOI in on one of those.
Thom said:
Asked if he favours turbo or n/a engined cars, he opts for turbo and draws the example that he uses the sixth gear in a turbo on the Autobahn, and drives to the Ring without touching the gear stick once. In the GT, he has to shift down three times after driving through road works at 60km/h, because a TDi is already tailgaiting him...
Sounds like he's just about ripe for a S600 Merc
Nothing wrong with that...I've got a S600...and a GT2. Horses for courses and all that.
see, i reckon a supercharged 993 would give you enough torque to see off the TDIs of this world, and yet you retain all the comforts of heated seats, air con, amazing visibility, and sound deadening (for those inevitable motorway jaunts on the way to the 'Ring).
Anyone see where i am going with this?
(by the way, Clubsport, how's it going? long time, etc. I miss the 4S but need a ride in your RS to give me some ideas for my C2, and i might have to steal your wheels!)
VS
Anyone see where i am going with this?
(by the way, Clubsport, how's it going? long time, etc. I miss the 4S but need a ride in your RS to give me some ideas for my C2, and i might have to steal your wheels!)
VS
verysideways said:
see, i reckon a supercharged 993 would give you enough torque to see off the TDIs of this world, and yet you retain all the comforts of heated seats, air con, amazing visibility, and sound deadening (for those inevitable motorway jaunts on the way to the 'Ring).
Anyone see where i am going with this?
(by the way, Clubsport, how's it going? long time, etc. I miss the 4S but need a ride in your RS to give me some ideas for my C2, and i might have to steal your wheels!)
VS
Hi VS going well thanks,,got the car just about sorted now..i even had had the wheel refurbished for you
Are you going along to bedford on the 30th? there are quite a few 993 in various state of modification attending...I know Butzi on here will be there with his very nice lhd C2....more than welcome for a pax lap if you come.
Melv said:
........... i like the philosophy of 300bhp and 1100kg...
My sentiments entirely!!!!
Mel
PS My Cup Car weighs 1120kgs and r/r'd at 320bhp at the flywheel.....
Forgive my ignorance, but is it really possible to get a 993RS down to 1100kg for the road? I assumed that Porsche took the weight out of, or deleted just about everything they could leaving only the most basic lightweight trim.
Are we talking about stripping the rest of the flimsy stuff out, such as door cards and even the lightweight carpets etc as well to get down to 1100kg, or are there still some more chunky bits that can come out?
Or is it necessary to go for lighter exterior panels in composite materials to shed the extra weight?
You have to work hard and spend £££ to get them lighter..the standard RS comes with ali bonnet, thin glass, but carpets, headlining, dual mass flywheel (sounds heavy)...supposedly the road cars are 1260kg.
The clubsport deletes sound deadening, headlining and other such fripperies but does come with a fully integrated cage, these are about 75kg lighter i am led to beleive.(a passenger!)
The speedline wheels are very strong but heavy, immediate weight savings can be made here a lot of the owners fit carbon doors and panels plus approved plastic glass to get the weight down to nearer 1100/50.
Hopefully 9M or Burzel will be along soon to enlighten us further (sorry!)
>> Edited by clubsport on Wednesday 20th October 18:08
The clubsport deletes sound deadening, headlining and other such fripperies but does come with a fully integrated cage, these are about 75kg lighter i am led to beleive.(a passenger!)
The speedline wheels are very strong but heavy, immediate weight savings can be made here a lot of the owners fit carbon doors and panels plus approved plastic glass to get the weight down to nearer 1100/50.
Hopefully 9M or Burzel will be along soon to enlighten us further (sorry!)
>> Edited by clubsport on Wednesday 20th October 18:08
clubsport said:
The clubsport deletes sound deadening, headlining and other such fripperies but does come with a fully integrated cage, these are about 75kg lighter i am led to beleive.(a passenger!)
>> Edited by clubsport on Wednesday 20th October 18:08
Hi CS, taking out sound deadening, the headlining and the fripperies but adding in a fully integrated cage loses 75kg ...a full twelve stones?
What might such fripperies be?
My 993RS CS now weighs in at 1162kg with 1/4 tank of fuel, so dry I expect it to be sub 1150. To get the stripped out caged-up CS to this you need:
Carbon doors, no door cards
Lightweight wheels
Partial rear heater system (only have one heat exchanger), no heater fan
9m induction system (individual throttle bodies)
One seat
I still have full glass and window winders, 90 litre fuel tank, heat (drivers side), full heater box, all undertrays/arch liners and steel panels. If you started with a non-CS (like Burzel's) you can get it lighter due to the cage weight. In my opinion 1100kg is just about possible, but for a road car with some trim 1150 is more likely the case.
The 964RS can be made even lighter, so in Mel's case 1100kg is an easier prospect, especially if you fit carbon wings and doors.
Carbon doors, no door cards
Lightweight wheels
Partial rear heater system (only have one heat exchanger), no heater fan
9m induction system (individual throttle bodies)
One seat
I still have full glass and window winders, 90 litre fuel tank, heat (drivers side), full heater box, all undertrays/arch liners and steel panels. If you started with a non-CS (like Burzel's) you can get it lighter due to the cage weight. In my opinion 1100kg is just about possible, but for a road car with some trim 1150 is more likely the case.
The 964RS can be made even lighter, so in Mel's case 1100kg is an easier prospect, especially if you fit carbon wings and doors.
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