Discussion
cheekyYes it's worth it.
As to when, depends where you live.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate...
The *average* UK temperatures are much lower than one might expect.
"In England the average annual temperature varies from 8.5 °C (47.3 °F) in the north to 11 °C (51.8 °F) in the south, but over the higher ground this can be several degrees lower." That's for the whole year - not the winter....
As to when, depends where you live.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate...
The *average* UK temperatures are much lower than one might expect.
"In England the average annual temperature varies from 8.5 °C (47.3 °F) in the north to 11 °C (51.8 °F) in the south, but over the higher ground this can be several degrees lower." That's for the whole year - not the winter....
I've put winter tyres on my 2008 Cayman since it was new. Usually I put them on at the end of November, and leave them on till we get a sustained week above 10C. In snow, it transforms the car, and even in cold and damp conditions it helps. However, above 8-12C you can feel the tread squirming and the steering feel isn't great.
Night and day. I lived near Philadelphia for two winters before the car and I came to the UK, and in serious snow it was still my daily commuter car. For the last three snowy winters in the UK it's also been great. The only thing that can stop the car is ground clearance, or a muppet in a 4WD who thinks their brakes match their traction...
chip-boy said:
do they really give better grip? i will near manchester but in a semi-rural area, my trip to work is down some nice country B roads, but with a bit of snow and ice.. not too much fun
yes - day and night - its the difference between staying on the road and not ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s
However, if the ice/snow is a one day wonder near you then it may not be worth spending 1K on tyres and extra rims. For me going at 0630 to work and living at the top of a hill where I have snow and ice for at least 4 weeks a year, I know I will always get up and down the road in safety regardless. It also an absolute hoot to hoon a winter tyre clad car on rural roads ... err private ones of course
chip-boy said:
do they really give better grip? i will near manchester but in a semi-rural area, my trip to work is down some nice country B roads, but with a bit of snow and ice.. not too much fun
yes, massive difference, best way I can describe it is winter tyres makes hard packed snow feel like you are driving on hard packed wet gravel road
I'll echo that, absolute night and day! The entire Bertish fleet gets its winter tyres on around November time (even had a set for the 993). Complete PITA, but well worth it.
So here's an interesting thing. The winter tyres seem to last for ages even when the temp is up. You'd expect them to get torn to shreds in non-winter just like race wets in the dry. But not so. The winters I run on my (ahem) Galaxy have done 4 winters so far. I've also been delinquent in changing back and often run the winter Avons into May.
I was talking to an off-road tyre specialist about the best winter tyres for my VW Toe-rag, assuming that off-road tyres would be good. Not that good apparently, but Vredestein Wintrac Extremes are vaunted to be extremely good in winter, work ok in summer and last for ever. So that's what I now have on the toe-rag. Time will tell!
Bert
So here's an interesting thing. The winter tyres seem to last for ages even when the temp is up. You'd expect them to get torn to shreds in non-winter just like race wets in the dry. But not so. The winters I run on my (ahem) Galaxy have done 4 winters so far. I've also been delinquent in changing back and often run the winter Avons into May.
I was talking to an off-road tyre specialist about the best winter tyres for my VW Toe-rag, assuming that off-road tyres would be good. Not that good apparently, but Vredestein Wintrac Extremes are vaunted to be extremely good in winter, work ok in summer and last for ever. So that's what I now have on the toe-rag. Time will tell!
Bert
I'll echo that, absolute night and day! The entire Bertish fleet gets its winter tyres on around November time (even had a set for the 993). Complete PITA, but well worth it.
So here's an interesting thing. The winter tyres seem to last for ages even when the temp is up. You'd expect them to get torn to shreds in non-winter just like race wets in the dry. But not so. The winters I run on my (ahem) Galaxy have done 4 winters so far. I've also been delinquent in changing back and often run the winter Avons into May.
I was talking to an off-road tyre specialist about the best winter tyres for my VW Toe-rag, assuming that off-road tyres would be good. Not that good apparently, but Vredestein Wintrac Extremes are vaunted to be extremely good in winter, work ok in summer and last for ever. So that's what I now have on the toe-rag. Time will tell!
Bert
So here's an interesting thing. The winter tyres seem to last for ages even when the temp is up. You'd expect them to get torn to shreds in non-winter just like race wets in the dry. But not so. The winters I run on my (ahem) Galaxy have done 4 winters so far. I've also been delinquent in changing back and often run the winter Avons into May.
I was talking to an off-road tyre specialist about the best winter tyres for my VW Toe-rag, assuming that off-road tyres would be good. Not that good apparently, but Vredestein Wintrac Extremes are vaunted to be extremely good in winter, work ok in summer and last for ever. So that's what I now have on the toe-rag. Time will tell!
Bert
Another vote here for wintrac extremes.
Had them on the XC70 for the past 2 years and not bothered changing them in summer (OK get your jibes in about Scottish summer!)
Admittedly it is the family wagon so driven with restraint, nevertheless wear has been exceptional and no problems with traction in fairly challenging conditions.
Had them on the XC70 for the past 2 years and not bothered changing them in summer (OK get your jibes in about Scottish summer!)
Admittedly it is the family wagon so driven with restraint, nevertheless wear has been exceptional and no problems with traction in fairly challenging conditions.
AML said:
Another vote here for wintrac extremes.
Had them on the XC70 for the past 2 years and not bothered changing them in summer (OK get your jibes in about Scottish summer!)
Admittedly it is the family wagon so driven with restraint, nevertheless wear has been exceptional and no problems with traction in fairly challenging conditions.
That's very good news then! We'll see how the toe-rag gets on.Had them on the XC70 for the past 2 years and not bothered changing them in summer (OK get your jibes in about Scottish summer!)
Admittedly it is the family wagon so driven with restraint, nevertheless wear has been exceptional and no problems with traction in fairly challenging conditions.
How are they in the snow?
Bert
As mentioned, huge difference. Here's a couple real world, UK videos...
Avons on the 924 S, nice comparison in here with a summer shod modern Mercedes...
http://youtu.be/wmr4ZduCGNw
I only put the wheels on this car as the engine was out of the project 924, but I don't use this car a lot so the tyres are still on there, worked fine through the summer - this car obviously isn't tracked and has mostly been pottering up and down the M4 when it is used. Wouldn't do the same with much more power.
And Dunlops on the Z4 (apologies for the BMW content)...
http://youtu.be/9LAbV3nQw2g
I tend to run these sub 7 degrees, but I go by the car temp gauge on the times I usually drive the car. When it warms up, 12 degrees plus, these can make the car feel a little light at speed, 80+.
Definitely worth the investment - summer rubber apparently degrades quicker when the rubber is very cold, and typically those tyres are bigger / wider and more expensive. Get yourself an impact wrench and swapping is easy.
Avons on the 924 S, nice comparison in here with a summer shod modern Mercedes...
http://youtu.be/wmr4ZduCGNw
I only put the wheels on this car as the engine was out of the project 924, but I don't use this car a lot so the tyres are still on there, worked fine through the summer - this car obviously isn't tracked and has mostly been pottering up and down the M4 when it is used. Wouldn't do the same with much more power.
And Dunlops on the Z4 (apologies for the BMW content)...
http://youtu.be/9LAbV3nQw2g
I tend to run these sub 7 degrees, but I go by the car temp gauge on the times I usually drive the car. When it warms up, 12 degrees plus, these can make the car feel a little light at speed, 80+.
Definitely worth the investment - summer rubber apparently degrades quicker when the rubber is very cold, and typically those tyres are bigger / wider and more expensive. Get yourself an impact wrench and swapping is easy.
BertBert said:
Vredestein Wintrac Extremes are vaunted to be extremely good in winter, work ok in summer and last for ever. So that's what I now have on the toe-rag. Time will tell!
Bert
Can vouch for the Vredesteins- have had them on my 996C4S for the last 7 years in the winter. They have worn spectacularly well (now need replacing) and I'm usually lazy in changing back to summer tyres- the winters have been down to the Med in Italy in May before now and I didn't really notice any massive wear because of this.Bert
This thread may be running s a bit off track as no one in their right mind would run winter tyres on a Cayman in the summer (unless out of necessity) but perhaps it is the Cayenne crew that are leading the discussion?
The Wintrac Extreme tyres certainly have their fans. I run a set on my Disco and they are much better in the winter than the default Wrangler all-season tyres but I don't think that I will get the mega-mileage out of them as some are reporting in the UK. It's possible that they well-suited to the UK climate (summer 2013 may have been the exception!). I find that they are 25% cheaper than other equivalent top brand winter tyres in 19" sizes though so still probably good value and I may buy them again.
However, regarding the all-year use of these tyres... you have got to consider the potential results of an emergency brkaing situation in hot weather. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that ultimately, they would take longer bring you to a full stop than tyres that were more optimised for summer use? A 2m shorter stopping distance from crusing speed could have a material impact(!) on the outcome.
As ever, you just have to be sensible and 'drive according to the condtions' and by that clearly I mean: the weather, the ambient temperature, the road surface conditions and the tyres that you are on (both the type and their state of wear).
The Wintrac Extreme tyres certainly have their fans. I run a set on my Disco and they are much better in the winter than the default Wrangler all-season tyres but I don't think that I will get the mega-mileage out of them as some are reporting in the UK. It's possible that they well-suited to the UK climate (summer 2013 may have been the exception!). I find that they are 25% cheaper than other equivalent top brand winter tyres in 19" sizes though so still probably good value and I may buy them again.
However, regarding the all-year use of these tyres... you have got to consider the potential results of an emergency brkaing situation in hot weather. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that ultimately, they would take longer bring you to a full stop than tyres that were more optimised for summer use? A 2m shorter stopping distance from crusing speed could have a material impact(!) on the outcome.
As ever, you just have to be sensible and 'drive according to the condtions' and by that clearly I mean: the weather, the ambient temperature, the road surface conditions and the tyres that you are on (both the type and their state of wear).
I used a mixed set of second hand winter wheels and tyres on my old 968 Sport (Pirelli Sottozero fronts and Hankook Icebear rears) and they transformed the car into something perfectly driveable on a snowy hilly terrain.
On the Cayman I've bought a secondhand set of 17" Cayman wheels (immaculate) and Conti winter tyres with around 7mm of tread (even N rated!) for less than £400 all in. I sourced them all seperately but suspect it paid to be buying winter tyres in the height of summer price wise. Now £10 per wheel to get them fitted and balanced. I rely on the car (my other car is a Caterham!) and live surrounded by hills so hopefully they'll see me through.
On the Cayman I've bought a secondhand set of 17" Cayman wheels (immaculate) and Conti winter tyres with around 7mm of tread (even N rated!) for less than £400 all in. I sourced them all seperately but suspect it paid to be buying winter tyres in the height of summer price wise. Now £10 per wheel to get them fitted and balanced. I rely on the car (my other car is a Caterham!) and live surrounded by hills so hopefully they'll see me through.
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