Discussion
I always wanted one of these and think it's time I got on with it...I'd really appreciate your views and experience.
My thoughts are: rear wheel drive, manual, varioram, coupe (not the targa). Ideally a C2S - Paul Stephens have a lovely blue 4S at the moment but £60K is way over my budget. I'm thinking 30-35K for a well maintained example.
Is this realistic? What are they like to live with?
Thanks
My thoughts are: rear wheel drive, manual, varioram, coupe (not the targa). Ideally a C2S - Paul Stephens have a lovely blue 4S at the moment but £60K is way over my budget. I'm thinking 30-35K for a well maintained example.
Is this realistic? What are they like to live with?
Thanks
Edited by P1ato on Sunday 15th September 09:50
The C2S is a worse car dynamically than the narrow body Carrera, but by god it looks good, so who cares!
I wouldn't get too hung up on varioram, there's not a great difference and some actually prefer the peakier nature of the none vario.
Number one consideration is condition.
Have you driven one? They are not for everybody.
I wouldn't get too hung up on varioram, there's not a great difference and some actually prefer the peakier nature of the none vario.
Number one consideration is condition.
Have you driven one? They are not for everybody.
mollytherocker said:
The C2S is a worse car dynamically than the narrow body Carrera, but by god it looks good, so who cares!
I wouldn't get too hung up on varioram, there's not a great difference and some actually prefer the peakier nature of the none vario.
Number one consideration is condition.
Have you driven one? They are not for everybody.
Driven a 964, which was a bit alarming at first but grew to love it. I'd be very happy with a narrow body C2, and it's good to hear varioram isn't essential. As you say, condition and maintenance are the non-negotiables.I wouldn't get too hung up on varioram, there's not a great difference and some actually prefer the peakier nature of the none vario.
Number one consideration is condition.
Have you driven one? They are not for everybody.
MTR'r what you say about the c2s is what the Jackal says too and maybe it's true but I don't know (looking up c2s reviews now).
IMHO I would say consider any and all that suit your fancy and budget but do lot's of ppi's. These cars can have a lot of issues as I have learned. There may be a pricey car that is exactly what you want but then the ppi fails on various tests - leak down test is important. By starting with a PPI you'll learn a lot about the cars in general. These car's were pretty safe so they weren't 'widow makers' of lore but they got crashed a lot.
Read about the cars and look at as many as you can.
IMHO I would say consider any and all that suit your fancy and budget but do lot's of ppi's. These cars can have a lot of issues as I have learned. There may be a pricey car that is exactly what you want but then the ppi fails on various tests - leak down test is important. By starting with a PPI you'll learn a lot about the cars in general. These car's were pretty safe so they weren't 'widow makers' of lore but they got crashed a lot.
Read about the cars and look at as many as you can.
You asked what 993s are like to live with. My answer is GREAT!
I've had a 1996 C4 Cab' since 2009 and have driven it for about 20,000 miles. Other than tyres and annual maintenance, nothing much has been needed. This year, I had the geometry adjusted by Center Gravity, which made an already good car even better to drive; and also had a new soft top fitted by Southbound in Stockbridge.
It does about 26 mpg and has cost me less to maintain than my Audi A4. The 993 is a great car, although not, perhaps, the most comfortable for a long drive.
I've had a 1996 C4 Cab' since 2009 and have driven it for about 20,000 miles. Other than tyres and annual maintenance, nothing much has been needed. This year, I had the geometry adjusted by Center Gravity, which made an already good car even better to drive; and also had a new soft top fitted by Southbound in Stockbridge.
It does about 26 mpg and has cost me less to maintain than my Audi A4. The 993 is a great car, although not, perhaps, the most comfortable for a long drive.
mollytherocker said:
The C2S is a worse car dynamically than the narrow body Carrera, but by god it looks good, so who cares!
I wouldn't get too hung up on varioram, there's not a great difference and some actually prefer the peakier nature of the none vario.
Number one consideration is condition.
Have you driven one? They are not for everybody.
Yeah don't get hung up on varioram, the earlier cars respond to tuning better if you want to tinker with exhaust/ air/ map etcI wouldn't get too hung up on varioram, there's not a great difference and some actually prefer the peakier nature of the none vario.
Number one consideration is condition.
Have you driven one? They are not for everybody.
Condition is the most important thing. Would be best to try a few, the first one I bought drove like a bannana as the previous owner didn't bother ever doing the geo.
The car was good though and with a suspension refresh, geo and the installation of an LSD was a great wee drive.
Happy hunting
I prefer the earlier engines i had a C4S which obviously had the varioram lump and it just wasn't quick. I have driven the earlier non varioram cars and they seem to rev quicker?
As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
PiB said:
These cars can have a lot of issues as I have learned. There may be a pricey car that is exactly what you want but then the ppi fails on various tests - leak down test is important. These car's were pretty safe so they weren't 'widow makers' of lore but they got crashed a lot.
.
They do not have this reputation at all regarding leak down etc, although i'm sure the odd one or two might have problems before a couple of hundred thousand miles..
Rusty bits are the only real issues of the NA cars in my experience.
I caned a Carrera daily for 5 years and mechanically only had to replace the alternator and a sunroof motor. I think accross the board this is way more typical than leaking bores and other engine/ tranny issues etc.
There's always the exception with any car though.
They are fantastic cars to own though and even if you have to chuck some money at them, the reward is worth it.
There's never any harm in doing a leak down test in an old car of course, but a standard NA 993 engine should be a fairly safe bet
Crimp a Length! said:
I prefer the earlier engines i had a C4S which obviously had the varioram lump and it just wasn't quick. I have driven the earlier non varioram cars and they seem to rev quicker?
As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
Your comments about the non vario revving more quickly is probably down to the shorter ratio gearbox.As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
The vario had longer ratios, although it is little known that some of the early vario cars had the shorter box!
Crimp a Length! said:
I prefer the earlier engines i had a C4S which obviously had the varioram lump and it just wasn't quick. I have driven the earlier non varioram cars and they seem to rev quicker?
As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
A few years ago I had a C4S that appeared a little on the slow side. I had Wayne Schofield do a power run that showed it developing only 240bhp, he found a small leak somewhere on the vacuum system, once rectified and after Wayne had worked some mapping magic the car developed 309bhp, it certainly wasn't slow. Maybe your's was suffering the same issue?As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
I actually preferred the 4S over a 97.1 GT3 I've just sold
kbooker said:
Crimp a Length! said:
I prefer the earlier engines i had a C4S which obviously had the varioram lump and it just wasn't quick. I have driven the earlier non varioram cars and they seem to rev quicker?
As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
A few years ago I had a C4S that appeared a little on the slow side. I had Wayne Schofield do a power run that showed it developing only 240bhp, he found a small leak somewhere on the vacuum system, once rectified and after Wayne had worked some mapping magic the car developed 309bhp, it certainly wasn't slow. Maybe your's was suffering the same issue?As posted earlier try and get a nice C2 (condition/history)
They tend to corrode around the windsceens and on the leading edge of the rear quarter wheel arches, other than that like any other air-cooled (b posts etc) albeit they have arch liners so don't suffer quite as bad.
Sound lovely with the RSR back boxes on!
I actually preferred the 4S over a 97.1 GT3 I've just sold
I never really took to the car very twitchy and nervous at high speed.
New owner has spent a lot of money on suspension geo at centre of gravity which has put this right by all accounts.
Crimp a Length! said:
Could have been that i owned it a few years now.
I never really took to the car very twitchy and nervous at high speed.
New owner has spent a lot of money on suspension geo at centre of gravity which has put this right by all accounts.
Mine was the same, stock dampers soon wear out and are cheap and nasty items anyway. I fitted Bilstein dampers and let CoG set it all up, the difference was night and dayI never really took to the car very twitchy and nervous at high speed.
New owner has spent a lot of money on suspension geo at centre of gravity which has put this right by all accounts.
Everyones different. Best to try a few out and decide. Whats certain though is there are significant differences between c2,c4,c2s,c4s and no, you dont have to be a driving god to tell the difference. You can tell a c2 from a c4 for example just by going through the village at 30mph.
For me, it always had to be the purest spec. For others it might be anything else. What does seem more universally true is that quite a few people have found the heavy c4s quite disappointing but even then, there is a chap over on 911uk who said the security and weight of the c4s meant it was the car for him.
RichyD who comes with us into europe each year had a C4 last year in the alps but this year a C2S and he vastly prefers his c2s for example. He was a lot quiker in it too. We're all different.
For me, it always had to be the purest spec. For others it might be anything else. What does seem more universally true is that quite a few people have found the heavy c4s quite disappointing but even then, there is a chap over on 911uk who said the security and weight of the c4s meant it was the car for him.
RichyD who comes with us into europe each year had a C4 last year in the alps but this year a C2S and he vastly prefers his c2s for example. He was a lot quiker in it too. We're all different.
Have you driven a 993 OP? Years ago I thought that I wanted one too - they are beautiful after all - and a C2S was top of my list too. They are stunning things to look at and sound great too, but I was sadly disappointed when I got to do the driving bit. I found it too slow and a bit of a non-event to drive. I really wanted to like it too. I'll probably be shot down for this, but have you looked at a 997 C2S?
Flying machine said:
Have you driven a 993 OP? Years ago I thought that I wanted one too - they are beautiful after all - and a C2S was top of my list too. They are stunning things to look at and sound great too, but I was sadly disappointed when I got to do the driving bit. I found it too slow and a bit of a non-event to drive. I really wanted to like it too. I'll probably be shot down for this, but have you looked at a 997 C2S?
No, I've only been a passenger in a 993, but have driven a 964, 930 and 996. I like the look of the 997 C2S and it seems like a hell of a lot of car for the money, but the 993 is an itch I feel a need to scratch. Clearly they all have their own character and I need to get behind as many wheels as possible and not buy on impulse. Just sold a non-vario C2 after 7 years glorious ownership. Best car I've ever owned/driven - planted, fast, responsive - but as said not for everyone so try one first. I spent 1- 1.5k a year on proactive maintenance and tweaking eg geo, and pampering. The only broken parts were a window switch and a worn sunroof cable. And even hoodies love them.
Happy hunting!
J
Happy hunting!
J
I bought a 993 turbo from JZM lately and it's bloody lovely. Fast, comfortable and stylish.
Of all the 911s I own I would say it is the one I'd be least likely to sell.
And for a 17 year old car it's amazing how it left my 997 GT3 Gen 2 for dead away from the lights a couple weeks ago (bit wet so that's my excuse as embarassingly my mate was driving the turbo and I was in GT3!).
One to put a smile on your face and everyone else who loves a 911!
Of all the 911s I own I would say it is the one I'd be least likely to sell.
And for a 17 year old car it's amazing how it left my 997 GT3 Gen 2 for dead away from the lights a couple weeks ago (bit wet so that's my excuse as embarassingly my mate was driving the turbo and I was in GT3!).
One to put a smile on your face and everyone else who loves a 911!
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