991 GT3 vs. used Macca MP4
Discussion
Potentially an interesting one this. Which would you go for ?
Ok so the macca is a bit more money but looks like its still dropping so same sort of ballpark towards early 2014.
Point to point they seem similar in performance if evo is anything to by but of course the mp4 is more of a traditional mid supercar type vehicle and straight line is definitely a different league.
They both have very good tech and the 991's form factor means it no longer really plays the rear engined dynamic card so much any more so i kind of see these two as failry similar cars.
Ok so the macca is a bit more money but looks like its still dropping so same sort of ballpark towards early 2014.
Point to point they seem similar in performance if evo is anything to by but of course the mp4 is more of a traditional mid supercar type vehicle and straight line is definitely a different league.
They both have very good tech and the 991's form factor means it no longer really plays the rear engined dynamic card so much any more so i kind of see these two as failry similar cars.
jackal said:
Potentially an interesting one this. Which would you go for ?
Ok so the macca is a bit more money but looks like its still dropping so same sort of ballpark towards early 2014.
Point to point they seem similar in performance if evo is anything to by but of course the mp4 is more of a traditional mid supercar type vehicle and straight line is definitely a different league.
They both have very good tech and the 991's form factor means it no longer really plays the rear engined dynamic card so much any more so i kind of see these two as failry similar cars.
The main difference I guess is day-to-day usability - while the MP4 appears to be fairly usable on a regular basis, it still looks fairly exotic and might therefore attract more unwanted attention than a GT3 (in a subtle colour!).Ok so the macca is a bit more money but looks like its still dropping so same sort of ballpark towards early 2014.
Point to point they seem similar in performance if evo is anything to by but of course the mp4 is more of a traditional mid supercar type vehicle and straight line is definitely a different league.
They both have very good tech and the 991's form factor means it no longer really plays the rear engined dynamic card so much any more so i kind of see these two as failry similar cars.
jackal said:
Potentially an interesting one this. Which would you go for ?
Ok so the macca is a bit more money but looks like its still dropping so same sort of ballpark towards early 2014.
Point to point they seem similar in performance if evo is anything to by but of course the mp4 is more of a traditional mid supercar type vehicle and straight line is definitely a different league.
They both have very good tech and the 991's form factor means it no longer really plays the rear engined dynamic card so much any more so i kind of see these two as failry similar cars.
Tough one, and one I have pondered over.Ok so the macca is a bit more money but looks like its still dropping so same sort of ballpark towards early 2014.
Point to point they seem similar in performance if evo is anything to by but of course the mp4 is more of a traditional mid supercar type vehicle and straight line is definitely a different league.
They both have very good tech and the 991's form factor means it no longer really plays the rear engined dynamic card so much any more so i kind of see these two as failry similar cars.
991 will have a more predictable depreciation curve, and easier to move on. And will probably thrill more.
I've got a Mac Spider, and a GT3 on order. I'm expecting the Porsche to feel tighter and sharper but a good deal slower, They might be about as fast around some track but I expect they will feel very different on the road. Of course the Spider is a hairdresser's car too so that's another difference. 
Carl_Docklands said:
It's a used bargain.
Thats what im thinking. Its shaping up to be the used buy of the decade.Whats interesting is the early Harris video where it seems to be 3 cars in one. Comfort settings more compliant than a 7 series, middle settings like a fairly soft F430 and track settings surely every bit as sharp as a GT3 ?
What i do like about the Macca is its right at the very pinnacle of engineering and the current state of the art. Love the whole on the fly dynamic spring rates thing and have though for years that active spring rates would be far far more useful than the adjustable elec damping that most cars have these days. Part of me would love to sample the MP4 in all its modernity ... even if in the back of your mind you know that a 458 would be more of an event. I also thought that when i sat in one, zonda aside, it was the best driving environment and driving position i have ever experienced.
jackal said:
What i do like about the Macca is its right at the very pinnacle of engineering and the current state of the art. Love the whole on the fly dynamic spring rates thing and have though for years that active spring rates would be far far more useful than the adjustable elec damping that most cars have these days. Part of me would love to sample the MP4 in all its modernity ... even if in the back of your mind you know that a 458 would be more of an event. I also thought that when i sat in one, zonda aside, it was the best driving environment and driving position i have ever experienced.
Will it be silly money for upkeep as the car gets older, or can you get a warranty as you can on the GT3 for just over £1k.430 Scuderia?
Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
fioran0 said:
430 Scuderia?
Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
Not a crazy idea.Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
My guess is the gt3 will be more raw, involving and fun , I know my old 3.8rs was far more fun back to back on the twisties. The Macca although monumentally fast in a straight line really lacks something IMHO. Noise, feel and looks.
In the end I went for a 458 . Bloody awesome car, but still not as involving as a gt3. Engine is absolutely sublime though. I simply can't be peeled out of it !
In the end I went for a 458 . Bloody awesome car, but still not as involving as a gt3. Engine is absolutely sublime though. I simply can't be peeled out of it !
fioran0 said:
430 Scuderia?
Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
Yes, great shout. Very soon if you have around 120-130k its going to be a pretty incerdible window full of options. Mp4, Scud, 911 Gt3, F458 ....Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
The Scud is a different sort of car of course. Personally with what i already own, im crying out for something with all the bells and whistles. Would prolly take the 458 before the scud.
fioran0 said:
430 Scuderia?
Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
I might be in a minority of 1 here, but I reckon the 430 challenge cars are a bit rubbish, to be frank. If the scud is anything like the challenge cars, then that doesn't count as very good motorsport tech to me.Used its about the same money. One of the great Ferraris, paddle shift (but attached to a proper sequential), e diff, a stonking engine, fantastic chassis. Actual motorsport tech by the yard and way more special.
I get that a 991 would make a less conspicuous daily but no one looking at these cars has only one car surely so it becomes somewhat moot. For those considering an RS, surely the scuderia must be looming very large in their decision.
I know where my money would go if I were interested and it wouldn't be Stuttgart.
Wouldn't say no to one as a road car, but I'd forever be thinking it wasn't quite up to doing its "real" job.
Harris_I said:
I might be in a minority of 1 here, but I reckon the 430 challenge cars are a bit rubbish, to be frank. If the scud is anything like the challenge cars, then that doesn't count as very good motorsport tech to me.
Wouldn't say no to one as a road car, but I'd forever be thinking it wasn't quite up to doing its "real" job.
The question though is rubbish relative to what?Wouldn't say no to one as a road car, but I'd forever be thinking it wasn't quite up to doing its "real" job.
Its all spec racing so any manufacturer making a spec racing car builds it to achieve certain aims or reach certain ends and each views these very differently. Porsche very specifically targets serious racers with their cars and makes them accordingly. GT racing is where its at for Porsche motorsport so while the Cups sit below the RSR they are still very much part of a larger picture of high level competition thats factory backed (and very profitable).
Ferrari on the other hand have a very different approach. Their spec racing series using the challenge cars in there to provide an opportunity for their customers to also race a Ferrari car. The approach, outlook and mentality is completely different to that used by Porsche and its very much an amateur/gentleman affair for the most part. The cars are therefor made with a very different purpose and driver in mind.
One cannot compare these cars directly in any way other than as a passing comment with an opinion from driving both and certainly one cannot carry over any conclusion to the road cars from the same.
Porsche could have chosen to run a series in this vein and used lightly modified C2 cars for the racing, then we would all be here laughing about how woeful they were.
As a piece of engineering, a 430 scud is an amazing piece of equipment. start poking about and taking them apart and the actual carry down in terms of materials, knowledge and application from F1 racing is everywhere. its really incredible once you get poking about and is technically really rather beautiful. Ferrari operate on a whole other planet to porsche when it comes to motorsport, the very top rung of the Porsche ladder is the second bottom of the Ferrari one. Even at pro GT level (GT2/GTE) porsche havent exactly been keeping up (sadly) and it does show once you get behind the visage.
With the new GT3 car and its technology laden design it moves closer to all those other cars that already have been applying that approach for a while, blurring the lines that used to be so clear between the two from a drivers perspective. If one is going to have to use paddle shift, then using ones attached to a proper sequential (not an auto) would seem to me to be far more exciting for a (previously) typical GT3 owner than the new 991 GT3. Same goes for the tech etc, theres much in the Scuderia that now would seem to me to tick boxes that the same GT3 owner would have been looking for previously. With the cars around the same money, the scuderia being (subjectively) far more lovely to look at and sit in it would seem to no longer be the leap that it would have previously been.
sitting in 2010 and looking at a Scuderia or a 997.2 GT3RS theres very clear differences between the cars and they fit very neatly into the preconceived notions of what each should or would be (and I would be in the 997.2 RS every time). sitting in 2013 though and looking at the 991 GT3 as a potential purchase and the tables have turned. its now perfectly arguable that the scuderia offers more of what a traditional GT3 owner would be looking for. from an economic point of view, things look decent for the scuderia too v the new GT3
sure, as an every day car the new GT3 would walk away over the Scud but for most people thats not what the new car purchase will be so it becomes moot as i already said. one also has more than just those options to choose and can thankfully just stick with one of the older cars, but IF i was in the market for a new GT3, there would be a few other cars I would now be giving a hard look at instead on the used market including the MP4 that started this thread off.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 16th September 18:45
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff