Your thoughts regarding the 996 Carreras

[Frances The Mute]

Afternoon all.

I'm looking to get myself into a 996 and, as a Porsche noob, I've been doing a fair bit of reading this last few days.

The Carrera 4S has been the car that has really piqued my interest thus far, but a clean C2 does appeal, too. Upon further investigation, the idea of a C4S was slightly tarnished with the fact it's AWD - something I'm not sure I'd want on a car of this nature. I'm used to RWD and am very much a fan of the dynamics.

So, aesthetic aside and accepting the well documented issues that affect the engine, how does the 996 fare with regards to these two drivetrains? Does the C2 deliver a purer driving experience or is the C4S a better bet as it's a more exploitable, every day car?

Any real world experience would be much appreciated and I'd be especially interested to hear from anyone who has owned both so they could directly compare.

[Magic919]

The C4S 996 is barely AWD, so don't worry too much. Front end feels a bit less lively than the C2 to me.

[cardigankid]

Both lovely cars, the C4S feels more exploitable, in the sense you could do almost anything with it and come out pointing the right way, but the C2 benefits from being significantly lighter.

[Frances The Mute]

Magic919 said:

The C4S 996 is barely AWD, so don't worry too much. Front end feels a bit less lively than the C2 to me.

Hmmm, that's something that I was worried about.

cardigankid said:

Both lovely cars, the C4S feels more exploitable, in the sense you could do almost anything with it and come out pointing the right way, but the C2 benefits from being significantly lighter.

Not far off 10% as I understand it. Pretty significant, all things considered.

Incidentally, how good are the Tiptronic boxes in these?

[Magic919]

I don't like the tip box in these models. You'll need to drive them and see what you think, of course.

[petop]

I have a Tip 996 C4S. Learn how to use it properly and it will give a run for its money to a manual. I like it, and will go for PDK next. Manual....im lazy.

[cardigankid]

Tip? It's fine, but unless you really want an auto, I would go manual.

[Frances The Mute]

Cheers gents.

I do prefer manuals but after using a similar system at the 'ring last year, I was certainly swayed into considering one as it worked beautifully when pushing the car hard.

I'll have a pop at some to see how they respond.

[thegoose]

Frances The Mute said:

Cheers gents.

I do prefer manuals but after using a similar system at the 'ring last year, I was certainly swayed into considering one as it worked beautifully when pushing the car hard.

I'll have a pop at some to see how they respond.

I'd say the opposite is true - when braking very hard & changing down quickly in a Tip the car sometimes prevents you from going to the lowest gear you've chosen because it believes you're going too quickly and because the display is very hard to see (a small column of numbers, one of which is lit up - compared to a big 2 or 3 or whatever in most other cars e.g. BMW, Ferrari, Audi etc) it means you don't know until it's too late that you've not actually been given the gear you selected.

If you prefer manuals then buy a manual.

[L200animal]

The last post, in my opinion, confirms one of the advantages of tiptronic. It's not so easy to thrash or over rev a tiptronic vehicle which is a bonus if you are buying second hand. These gearboxes are pretty bullet proof. I have an '02 Targa C2. I managed to not notice a ruptured hose and boiled it which resulted in localised damage to a hydraulic lifter. To be on the safe side I replaced the cams on that side and all the tappets. while we were at it we replaced plugs and coil packs and any hoses that looked suspect including the one that gave way which was a big hose with a metal "T" piece in it ( the rubber to metal joint failed for some reason). I have also had to put a water pump on it and replace a door lock which developed an electrical fault. The glass roof sticking was traced to a foreign body stuck in the track which once removed cured the problem instantly.

Great car, v fast, great induction and exhaust noise. Tiptronic gives you the choice of how involved you want to be above all looking v cheap at the moment. 4 seats in a supercar for very little money - seems like a no brainer to me. I wouldn't worry about IMS and other things you hear about. If you are then get a warranty for peace of mind

[Frances The Mute]

thegoose said:

I'd say the opposite is true - when braking very hard & changing down quickly in a Tip the car sometimes prevents you from going to the lowest gear you've chosen because it believes you're going too quickly

Thanks for the info. That's not something I had to contend with on the Switchtronic system in my old B3 so being limited in that way is a no-no for me.

A standard cog swapper is on the cards, then.

[LordHaveMurci]

The C4S is arguably the better looking car, they are more expensive but should hold that value better over time? The major downside is the c 150kg weight penalty with no extra power, the front boot will be smaller too due to the AWD system.

Have had my C2 for four years now, did consider a C4S but glad I chose the C2, very challenging & rewarding car to drive (manual of course ).

[jkh112]

The tip box will only ignore requests for downshifts if this would cause an overrev. This is my experience of a 996 3.6 carrera which has a different tip box to a 3.4 carrera.

I am surprised at comments saying that a tip box ruins the driving dynamics of a 996. These cars are special because of their steering feel, rear weight bias, engine response, exhaust note,looks etc. None of these are materially affected by gearbox choice.

Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 19th September 14:03

[petop]

I have commented on the Tip box a few times in the past. I use mine in "manual" mode all the time. Once you get used to the lack of ratios and it does "protect" itself but not to the extent that it stops you downshifting when you want to, then its a not that bad of gearbox. Its not lightening fast compared to a PDK but it is faster than a manual. And those that say differently are talking bks.
Rememeber Manual (driving God version):
Hands on steering wheel.
Left hand off steering wheel
Left hand onto gear lever
Foot onto clutch pedal
Foot off accelerator
Foot press down on clutch
Select new gear
Foot off clutch
Foot on accelerator
Left hand back on steering wheel

Manual (ancient Tip version):
Hands on steering wheel
Right/left thumb on button
Press + button

Yep, i think its faster!
Go out and test drive one though. The problem is we have all been brought up on manuals. So apart from the fact its different you brain is having to get used to the new way. A 30 min test drive wont let you do this so it will feel un-natural. You will then put it in Auto and yes, it becomes a slow slushbox. I bought my C4S Tip without driving it. So the first time i drove a Tip was when i picked it up from RSJ. My buying experience has been mentioned before why i had to do it that way. So i was either going to love it or hate it. But i wanted to use it properly, hence i use manual all the time. And apart from the button process (would prefer paddles) it does what it says on the tin so to speak. A PDK 997 Turbo/GTS or new 981 next for me. But would happily go to a 997.1 Turbo Tip if the right car came along.

[steve singh]

996 manuals are horrible when cold - can't even get into the 1st / 2nd gears smoothly on cold days - once the gearbox oil warms up it's a different matter.

[petop]

Cmoose, of course its been mentioned before but in the car that you would think Porsche would like you to get more involvement with, a 991 GT3, and they throw in a horrible PDK!
I do actually agree with you that get a good car, with good gearbox and a country lane drive can take a new meaning. My old Vtec CRX (not the hairdresser folding roof type!) had one of the best gearbox actions i have driven and would i have wanted a tip/PDK type in that.....nope. But i dont think a 911 is ruined by the Tip if its used correctly. If you just leave it in Auto then you shouldnt be driving a 911?

[996TT02]

Frances The Mute said:

Afternoon all.
The Carrera 4S has been the car that has really piqued my interest thus far,

If your budget stretches to a C4S which is considerably larger than that required for a C2 I would go for a Turbo.

Fundamentally, a safer engine, that reason alone suffices, but then of course you have the fact that it goes like stink. And then some.

[Budweiser]

steve singh said:

996 manuals are horrible when cold - can't even get into the 1st / 2nd gears smoothly on cold days - once the gearbox oil warms up it's a different matter.

Booth the 996 cars I have owned had manual boxes. On the first I fitted a short shifter and this was as you have described when cold. The standard shifter has never caused any problems on either car. My currents C4S manual (2004 MY) is a gem...

[thegoose]

petop said:

STUFF, including................

Once you get used to the lack of ratios and it does "protect" itself but not to the extent that it stops you downshifting when you want to, then its a not that bad of gearbox. Its not lightening fast compared to a PDK but it is faster than a manual. And those that say differently are talking bks.

Thanks for reminding me about the lack of ratios - 5 isn't as good as 6.

Anyway, if you haven't experienced it failing to downshift on demand due to high speed/high retardation rate then it's fair to say I've driven one on track faster than you have For example, coming through Island Bend at Oulton Park in 4th and trying to get 2nd when braking hard on the approach to Shell Oils hairpin, having asked for it at an appropriate time (as per my original point which everyone extolling the virtues of Tips seems to have overlooked), when you look at the display it's bl00dy difficult to see what gear it's in - so until you start accelerating round the bend you're not sure whether it has indeed selected 2nd as requested or has decided to stay in 3rd. That kind of lottery is no good when driving it on track, although I appreciate not many Tip owners will do so, but the point was still worth making.

[edh]

I drove a 991 c2s pdk at porsche experience silverstone on saturday. I was most impressed with the car but couldn't ever see me buying a pdk car. I was definitely quickest when in auto sport plus - very clever gearbox but all I did was steer, accelerate and brake. I'd have had more fun and involvement in a manual. I'm also not sure about all the driver aids - maybe the 996 is the last "proper" 911

Operating the pdk in manual is odd - push forward to change up is just wrong & you have to think hard every time you change gear.

Bit off topic but I think it's a fair comparison with 996 tip / manual.