Why such a difference between my 997.2 and Cayman S
Discussion
Quick question regarding the how sharp the brakes on my 997.2 brakes should be.
I purchased a 3 year old 997.2 12 months back with only 5,000 miles on the clock.
After a while thought the brakes seemed a bit soft since I've had the vehicle but thought nothing of it until today....
I dropped the car off for a major service and the provided a Cayman S as the courtesy vehicle and as soon as I touched the brakes I couldn't believe the difference, just regular brakes not ceramic or anything but it gave me miles more confidence in the vehicle as a whole.
Is this down to the newer generation of vehicle or should I get the pads changed, I'm surprised if it the pad as the car has only 11,000 miles on the clock and it's been soft since since I purchased it.
Im interested in anyone who has driven a 997 and a recent model for any comparison thoughts/ideas.
Cheers.
I purchased a 3 year old 997.2 12 months back with only 5,000 miles on the clock.
After a while thought the brakes seemed a bit soft since I've had the vehicle but thought nothing of it until today....
I dropped the car off for a major service and the provided a Cayman S as the courtesy vehicle and as soon as I touched the brakes I couldn't believe the difference, just regular brakes not ceramic or anything but it gave me miles more confidence in the vehicle as a whole.
Is this down to the newer generation of vehicle or should I get the pads changed, I'm surprised if it the pad as the car has only 11,000 miles on the clock and it's been soft since since I purchased it.
Im interested in anyone who has driven a 997 and a recent model for any comparison thoughts/ideas.
Cheers.
My early 996 has a very sensitive brake pedal. It is annoying and can be dialled out. I, like others, prefer a more progressive pedal where you need to press it harder to stop harder. It is ok stopping from very high speeds but is hard to control well below 40 mph. The car also seems to have slightly overly front biased brake balance which can catch you out.
luck of the draw really. I have noted that between the same gen cars there are discrepancies. They all stop just as well. It's just how everything fits together. On track, the softer setup may be less confidence inspiring but it stops just as well. What you need is to upgrade the lines then the feel will be less spongy.
better pads also help.
better pads also help.
arcamalpha said:
The feel changes with servo setup, caliper type, fluid and of course pads.
You should have a very firm pedal in any Porsche. If not, start by changing the fluid.
Your post intrigues me. The other week I had my 6 year old 997S serviced. It was the 2 year service, plus a belt change and the brake fluid was changed for the third time.You should have a very firm pedal in any Porsche. If not, start by changing the fluid.
On getting the car back, the pedal feel was different to what it has been ever before. Less travel definitely and slightly more solid. Only took minutes to adapt to it but it was noticeable.
I have never had an issue with the brakes as they always were, they give great feel and a lot of confidence, but I am slightly puzzled about why a fluid change could alter the pedal feel.
BTW the car only does about 3K each year so the fluid being changed isn't likely to have degraded much.
nsm3 said:
Pretty sure brake fluid absorbs moisture, which is why it needs changing every coup,e of years and alters pedal feel?
Yes it does, it is hygroscopic. But, in all honesty, that's not why it gets changed. Most cars wouldn't absorb significant water in 5 years of high mileage, let alone 2 years of 3 or 4k. In any case, it is easy to measure the water content but no-one ever does that, they just change it. Another way of recovering lost revenue from increased servicing intervals I guess.Any my car never felt like it did the other week, even when new.
REALIST123 said:
Your post intrigues me. The other week I had my 6 year old 997S serviced. It was the 2 year service, plus a belt change and the brake fluid was changed for the third time.
On getting the car back, the pedal feel was different to what it has been ever before. Less travel definitely and slightly more solid. Only took minutes to adapt to it but it was noticeable.
I have never had an issue with the brakes as they always were, they give great feel and a lot of confidence, but I am slightly puzzled about why a fluid change could alter the pedal feel.
BTW the car only does about 3K each year so the fluid being changed isn't likely to have degraded much.
Sorry, my post wasn't quite clear. As others have said, I don't think the fluid 'degrades' enough to notice, but it's quite common to get air introduced when changing the fluid if they're not bled carefully.On getting the car back, the pedal feel was different to what it has been ever before. Less travel definitely and slightly more solid. Only took minutes to adapt to it but it was noticeable.
I have never had an issue with the brakes as they always were, they give great feel and a lot of confidence, but I am slightly puzzled about why a fluid change could alter the pedal feel.
BTW the car only does about 3K each year so the fluid being changed isn't likely to have degraded much.
arcamalpha said:
I think the main reason the fluid gets changed is to prevent rust to the brakes lines etc rather than because the water affected compressibility.
No, there is no chance of that happening. Firstly the water is held in full suspension and secondly there is no oxygen present.I havent found a manufacturer who doesnt say something along the lines of this from VW:
Brake fluid change
Why does my brake fluid need to be changed?
Brake fluid must withstand operating temperatures of up to 230°C but over time absorbs water which boils at 100°C. As the water boils, it turns to compressible vapour which means you won't be able to brake as efficiently.
What happens if it's not changed?
If too much moisture builds up, the brake fluid can boil while you're braking, seriously affecting performance. It can cause the brakes to fail. A spongy feel to the brake pedal shows you this has started to happen.
Whilst this is all technically correct, can it happen in two years with modern systems? I very much doubt it.
REALIST123 said:
No, there is no chance of that happening. Firstly the water is held in full suspension and secondly there is no oxygen present.
I ain't no scientist, but that isn't strictly true. H2O. When it repeatedly cycles through boiling/condensing, I can imagine the opportunity for corrosion may arise there? Just guessing though?When I got my 997.2 C2S a year ago, whilst there was no 'softness' to the brake pedal, I found it needed a considerable shove for anything to happen, something I found slightly disappointing, given the 911's reputation for good brakes. That was then, this is now: having gotten used to the brakes, they are immensely powerful and linear in application, making for very fine control over modulation and making threshold braking for the ABS very, very easy. H&T is a delight, too. You just have to put some effort in. OPC lent me a brand new Boxster a couple of weeks ago and I immediately found it horribly over-servo'd and with that VAGish non-linearity which made it much more difficult to work with. I drove a 991S at Silverstone PEC a few weeks ago but don't recall finding any problem there with the brake feel - is this then something specific to Boxsters and Cayman?
I drove the 991S at Porsche recemtly - I thought the brakes were very good and progressive, not over servoed and excellent for a new car, unlike like my 986S which feels quite wooden with very limited feel and very short travel. They stop fine though. I was discussing this with a friend on the day who agreed & said his 996C4 was similar - he'd changed pads & discs to try and improve it but it was unchanged.
We both have 944's as well - great brakes but quite a long pedal travel for people used to modern cars.
We both have 944's as well - great brakes but quite a long pedal travel for people used to modern cars.
Strange, the brakes on my 981 Boxster don't feel over servo'd at all, very progressive and easy to modulate not Audi like at all. Our other car is a B8 S4 - now those are over servo'd! Sometimes get in that and don't adjust my style and instantly perform an emergency stop at the end of the road.
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