944 - best track day model?
Discussion
Hi All,
Just looking into getting an old 944 as a track day car, i've seen various articles and blogs about the s2 and turbo versions, just wondered if anyone had any 1st hand experience with the different models.
Will be preparing it for track, so probably ripping out rear seats and adding a roll cage etc. So would a lux suffice do you think, and is an s2 just as good as the turbo with a few mods?
Cheers
Jamie
Just looking into getting an old 944 as a track day car, i've seen various articles and blogs about the s2 and turbo versions, just wondered if anyone had any 1st hand experience with the different models.
Will be preparing it for track, so probably ripping out rear seats and adding a roll cage etc. So would a lux suffice do you think, and is an s2 just as good as the turbo with a few mods?
Cheers
Jamie
My recommendation will produce a different result to answering those questions I'm afraid.
If your serious about trackdays buy an S2 car that has already been prepped for club championship racing, preferably one built ground up on a dipped/welded/weld-in-cage body shell. The difference to a road car or a road car with some mods is monumentally huge.
If your serious about trackdays buy an S2 car that has already been prepped for club championship racing, preferably one built ground up on a dipped/welded/weld-in-cage body shell. The difference to a road car or a road car with some mods is monumentally huge.
give these guys a call. They're leading 944 race/track car specialists and no doubt they will know of a good car one of their customers have for sale.
http://www.promaxmotorsport.co.uk/category/20-pors...
http://www.promaxmotorsport.co.uk/category/20-pors...
What's your budget? Are you looking for a car you can drive to the track? You have so many options from a standard s2 to a 500hp track only turbo.
An ex pcgb race car won't be cheap (10k+). There is a nice looking but quite pricey black / green s2 track car that has been hanging around the classifieds for a while.
I've had a turbo track car and now run an s2. I prefer the s2 & in general I would go for n/a cars for trackdays.
I wouldn't discount an early boxster s either.
An ex pcgb race car won't be cheap (10k+). There is a nice looking but quite pricey black / green s2 track car that has been hanging around the classifieds for a while.
I've had a turbo track car and now run an s2. I prefer the s2 & in general I would go for n/a cars for trackdays.
I wouldn't discount an early boxster s either.
I had a 944 turbo we prepped. MO30 , 968 ARBs, striped out, harnesses etc and it was great if not a bit of a handful in the wet. Sold for about 3k - bargain!.
If I were doing it again I'd probably start with an S2 as the power is a bit more predictable.
Ex race cars or well prepped cars are about 10k. If you buy a mechanically decent car for 3-4k, refresh the suspension £1.5, put better pads and brake fluid in £300, Change the seats and remove the back shelf and carpets if you must (which will sell for more than the racing seats you need) then you'll have something respectable for half the price. The fully prepared car will always be worth that money however.
Harnesses are important though they were just bolted to the floor in the car I had - not sure how wise that is
If I were doing it again I'd probably start with an S2 as the power is a bit more predictable.
Ex race cars or well prepped cars are about 10k. If you buy a mechanically decent car for 3-4k, refresh the suspension £1.5, put better pads and brake fluid in £300, Change the seats and remove the back shelf and carpets if you must (which will sell for more than the racing seats you need) then you'll have something respectable for half the price. The fully prepared car will always be worth that money however.
Harnesses are important though they were just bolted to the floor in the car I had - not sure how wise that is
NJH said:
My recommendation will produce a different result to answering those questions I'm afraid.
If your serious about trackdays buy an S2 car that has already been prepped for club championship racing, preferably one built ground up on a dipped/welded/weld-in-cage body shell. The difference to a road car or a road car with some mods is monumentally huge.
I can see your point Neil, but aren't the most significant changes the much stiffer springs, lots of camber & lower ride height. All achievable without buying a race car.If your serious about trackdays buy an S2 car that has already been prepped for club championship racing, preferably one built ground up on a dipped/welded/weld-in-cage body shell. The difference to a road car or a road car with some mods is monumentally huge.
That is only about 1/3 to 1/2 of it. The 200+ Kg lower weight and mega stiff shell are the other thirds.
The point really is this: If one is serious about track days you will be spending anywhere between £6K and £10K PA. At that point its folly to scrimp on the car as apart from anything else race cars kept in good condition maintain their value whereas a road car that has been messed with doesn't. I would go further and state up front if you can't afford to spend several £K PA and put the equivalent track time in then really there is no point in having a track car whether its for track days or racing. You have to be in for a penny in for a pound or just don't waste your time and money down this path. This is the biggest thing I have learned these past 4 years.
The point really is this: If one is serious about track days you will be spending anywhere between £6K and £10K PA. At that point its folly to scrimp on the car as apart from anything else race cars kept in good condition maintain their value whereas a road car that has been messed with doesn't. I would go further and state up front if you can't afford to spend several £K PA and put the equivalent track time in then really there is no point in having a track car whether its for track days or racing. You have to be in for a penny in for a pound or just don't waste your time and money down this path. This is the biggest thing I have learned these past 4 years.
NJH speaks a lot of sense.
Also, a home made 944 track car that won't fit into any particular championship competitively has a narrow market and a limited value - perhaps £3k-£6k tops, but will have cost a lot more to prep. A good race car will have up to date seat and harness, a properly fitted cage and a plumbed in extinguisher. They cost a lot more to build so a good one should always be worth £10k or just over.
They can be road registered easily, and MOT'd etc and you can even fit a spare set of wheels & tyres inside with a small trolley jack, so incredibly practical as a track car.
As for a cheap track car, for just a few days here and there you'd be MUCH better off renting one of Bookatrack's Caterhams - about £375/day including fuel and instruction. No tyres, brakes, breakdowns, rebuilds or anything of the like to ever pay for and you just turn up in your own car, drive the balls off it and leave it there. You'll not run a 944 for that kind of money, you may do a lot of man-maths to kid yourself, but it will be costing you more in reality.
Also, a home made 944 track car that won't fit into any particular championship competitively has a narrow market and a limited value - perhaps £3k-£6k tops, but will have cost a lot more to prep. A good race car will have up to date seat and harness, a properly fitted cage and a plumbed in extinguisher. They cost a lot more to build so a good one should always be worth £10k or just over.
They can be road registered easily, and MOT'd etc and you can even fit a spare set of wheels & tyres inside with a small trolley jack, so incredibly practical as a track car.
As for a cheap track car, for just a few days here and there you'd be MUCH better off renting one of Bookatrack's Caterhams - about £375/day including fuel and instruction. No tyres, brakes, breakdowns, rebuilds or anything of the like to ever pay for and you just turn up in your own car, drive the balls off it and leave it there. You'll not run a 944 for that kind of money, you may do a lot of man-maths to kid yourself, but it will be costing you more in reality.
As for a cheap track car, for just a few days here and there you'd be MUCH better off renting one of Bookatrack's Caterhams - about £375/day including fuel and instruction. No tyres, brakes, breakdowns, rebuilds or anything of the like to ever pay for and you just turn up in your own car, drive the balls off it and leave it there. You'll not run a 944 for that kind of money, you may do a lot of man-maths to kid yourself, but it will be costing you more in reality.
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This, this and then a bit more of this!
NJH might make sense, but I'm waiting for the next poster to say "you're wasting your time with a 944, what you really need is a GT3"
Hundreds of people do trackdays every week in road cars, and they don't spontaneously combust...They might not be as fast round a circuit as race cars but they can still be fun.
We still don't know if the OP is planning to spend £2k or £10k on a car, how many trackdays he plans, what level of experience/competence he has, whether he might eventually want to go racing, etc..
Following on the racecar logic it would be cheaper to buy a 924 racer of course, and you'd still get all the benefits Neil described..
I agree that the BaT cars would be cheaper, and it's worth bearing in mind that 944's are getting old. They will all need money spending on them, and parts will wear out / fail. Depends if you just want to turn up at BaT events or if you want a wider choice of trackdays & don't mind (or even enjoy) spannering. Caterhams are great fun and much more intense than most cars - may not be so pleasant on winter trackdays though...
Hundreds of people do trackdays every week in road cars, and they don't spontaneously combust...They might not be as fast round a circuit as race cars but they can still be fun.
We still don't know if the OP is planning to spend £2k or £10k on a car, how many trackdays he plans, what level of experience/competence he has, whether he might eventually want to go racing, etc..
Following on the racecar logic it would be cheaper to buy a 924 racer of course, and you'd still get all the benefits Neil described..
I agree that the BaT cars would be cheaper, and it's worth bearing in mind that 944's are getting old. They will all need money spending on them, and parts will wear out / fail. Depends if you just want to turn up at BaT events or if you want a wider choice of trackdays & don't mind (or even enjoy) spannering. Caterhams are great fun and much more intense than most cars - may not be so pleasant on winter trackdays though...
Morning chaps!
Apologies snot been able to respond sooner, not checked it since my last post, the feedback is much appreciated!
I guess I have a different idea in my head when it comes to track car, basically I want to spend up to £4, maybe £5k on the 944 and some improvements.
It is partly a project for me and an old fiend (he is a mechanic), so i'm not wanting the finished championship winning car.
I will probably do 10 track days a year at the most and would like to also use it on the road at weekends etc having as much fun on the roads as it actually possible...
I really like the 944, I was looking for advice on the main differences between the s2 and the turbo
I guess in hindsight the title 'track day car' is misleading, but some great points on here I suppose!
Its probably more about the project & fun element as opposed to competing in races etc
Cheers
Jamie
Apologies snot been able to respond sooner, not checked it since my last post, the feedback is much appreciated!
I guess I have a different idea in my head when it comes to track car, basically I want to spend up to £4, maybe £5k on the 944 and some improvements.
It is partly a project for me and an old fiend (he is a mechanic), so i'm not wanting the finished championship winning car.
I will probably do 10 track days a year at the most and would like to also use it on the road at weekends etc having as much fun on the roads as it actually possible...
I really like the 944, I was looking for advice on the main differences between the s2 and the turbo
I guess in hindsight the title 'track day car' is misleading, but some great points on here I suppose!
Its probably more about the project & fun element as opposed to competing in races etc
Cheers
Jamie
With your budget I'd suggest a decent turbo is out of reach
Anyway, main differences...
There are essentially 2 turbo models - 220hp and 250hp. The 250 cars have a larger turbocharger, LSD (usually) bigger front brake calipers and a few other useful bits. Very early 220 cars have no ABS and should be lighter. The turbo is quite easily tunable to 270-300hp and many cars have been modified. My main concern as a track car is heat management - specially with a bit more boost. Can lead to headgasket failures etc.. The extra complexity of the turbo plumbing seems to lead to more problems (although turbo owners may not agree)
The S2 has similar running gear to the 220 turbo. It's slightly lighter. The engine has a cam chain (between the 2 cams) that needs checking as a failure can be very expensive.
Both cars sound pretty dull - which can be a bit disappointing on the track. Standard models will really be a bit soft for trackdays - Gaz suspension seems favourite (from EMC).
Many 944's are rusty now (sills, rears suspension mounts, bottom of front wings) all fixable but can be expensive. Plenty of buyers guides out there for more info. All of these cars have the potential to eat your money - belts, waterpump, brakes, suspension arms etc...
Having said all that, I think they are great cars - I'm off to Spa in my S2 next week
Anyway, main differences...
There are essentially 2 turbo models - 220hp and 250hp. The 250 cars have a larger turbocharger, LSD (usually) bigger front brake calipers and a few other useful bits. Very early 220 cars have no ABS and should be lighter. The turbo is quite easily tunable to 270-300hp and many cars have been modified. My main concern as a track car is heat management - specially with a bit more boost. Can lead to headgasket failures etc.. The extra complexity of the turbo plumbing seems to lead to more problems (although turbo owners may not agree)
The S2 has similar running gear to the 220 turbo. It's slightly lighter. The engine has a cam chain (between the 2 cams) that needs checking as a failure can be very expensive.
Both cars sound pretty dull - which can be a bit disappointing on the track. Standard models will really be a bit soft for trackdays - Gaz suspension seems favourite (from EMC).
Many 944's are rusty now (sills, rears suspension mounts, bottom of front wings) all fixable but can be expensive. Plenty of buyers guides out there for more info. All of these cars have the potential to eat your money - belts, waterpump, brakes, suspension arms etc...
Having said all that, I think they are great cars - I'm off to Spa in my S2 next week
Hi mcjamie,
A 944 on track can be a lot of fun.
My track day mate has a red 944S that he has used as a track car for the last couple of years and made some huge improvements along the way to the balance/handling.
It just so happens he is considering selling it (he has always wanted to build a kit car so that's his next project), and i expect it will be well within your budget.
PM me if you are interested in taking a look.
A 944 on track can be a lot of fun.
My track day mate has a red 944S that he has used as a track car for the last couple of years and made some huge improvements along the way to the balance/handling.
It just so happens he is considering selling it (he has always wanted to build a kit car so that's his next project), and i expect it will be well within your budget.
PM me if you are interested in taking a look.
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