Why do 997 Tiptronics pull away in 2nd Gear?

[AlexH997]

I have a 997.1 tiptronic and it always pulls away in 2nd gear. I find it very sluggish.

I end up manually dropping it into 1st gear whenever I pull away to make a smoother getaway.

Why is the car configured like this? why not just pull away in 1st?

[gaxor]

Personally I have never noticed it to be sluggish. Book figure 0-62 in 3.5s isn't sluggish and tip is quicker than manual to 62mph. If you want a 1st gear start engage sport mode and floor it. Hold 1st gear for about 0.1s

[OggyDJ]

This fact of the Tip being quicker to 60 than a manual really amuses me

I know it is quicker on paper, but really, how much difference does it really make on the road (like car lengths) and more importantly (for me), what fun is there in planting your foot and just sitting there as a passenger while the car rockets towards the horizon ?

Have had a couple of childish (dual carriageway) traffic light GPs with my good friend who has a different marque but equally matched car in terms of 0-100. We only did it a couple of times but sometimes I just got the edge with the set-off and gear changes and sometimes he did. It was all down to the skill of the driver at that particular moment in time. It was fun and challenging. I think his car is rated at 4 seconds to 60 and mine is 3.8....makes bugger all difference on the road.

Please don't get me wrong, Tips are great if you do lots of commuting / heavy traffic work (or need one for medical reasons) but when people play the "I'm going Tip as it's quicker card"...just makes me chuckle.

Anyway, guess it sets off in 2nd as the software decides it's more efficient to do this ?? It's an automatic, that's what they do....decide for you what's best.

If you don't like it, suggest to buy a manual...

[supersport]

I believe it aids bore scoring!

I think all or almost most auto boxes do this.

[markmullen]

The idea is to make it smoother, rather than pulling away and immediately shifting into 2nd.

If you mash the kickdown button under the pedal it'll leave in 1st.

[FarQue]

OP you'll likely find that it pulls away in first when cold or on a very steep hill start. Once the engine is warm, the engine should be torquey enough to pull away in second in most situations. My 997s does this as did my 986s before it. As said before, use the buttons on the 'wheel if you feel the need for a little more 'manual' (I use the word loosely)control.

[f1ashgordon]

The manual for my gen2 manual recommends pulling away in 2nd wherever possible for fuel efficiency. I do if I'm pointing down hill but it doesn't feel quite right on the clutch anywhere else.
I guess tip and PDK follow the same logic.

[AlexH997]

Thanks for the responses, I wasn't looking to start a 'whose car is quicker to 60' as it makes little difference, they're both quick.

I was just curious why the tips were designed to pull away under high torque. Flooring it is one thing but how often can you do that these days safely on normal roads.

[anonymous-user]

AlexH997 said:

Thanks for the responses, I wasn't looking to start a 'whose car is quicker to 60' as it makes little difference, they're both quick.

I was just curious why the tips were designed to pull away under high torque. Flooring it is one thing but how often can you do that these days safely on normal roads.

Same with the 996TT. There's something in the handbook that points out that this is what it does, but doesn't explain why. It also says (from memory) something to the effect of "if you're going to drop to 1 and pull away, don't hang around".

The tip box on the 996/7TT has direct lock up from 2 onwards, IIRC. I don't know whether that is anything to do with its behaviour from a standing start. Maybe.

AFAIK, this behaviour is atypical of tip boxes generally. The more usual thing at least IME is for them to pull away in 1.

[Callughan]

For smoothness and fuel economy.

As Mark mentioned when driven hard, it will recognise driving pattern and start in first.

Also when very cold it starts in 1st.

[mns1977]

So no harm in pulling away in 2nd in a manual then?

[AlexH997]

Callughan said:

For smoothness and fuel economy.

As Mark mentioned when driven hard, it will recognise driving pattern and start in first.

Also when very cold it starts in 1st.

Define 'very cold'
In 12 months my car has never pulled away in 1st unless I'm on a hill

[OggyDJ]

AlexH997 said:

Thanks for the responses, I wasn't looking to start a 'whose car is quicker to 60' as it makes little difference, they're both quick.

I was just curious why the tips were designed to pull away under high torque. Flooring it is one thing but how often can you do that these days safely on normal roads.

Yes, I apologise for that one as reading it back, I don't think I managed to express my point in the way I originally intended to and it does sound a little harsh

Guess I just meant to say, "it's just the way they are and you have to live with it"

But then I got carried away with reasons for buying a Tip in the first place. When the 997 T was launched, Porsche dealers made a big deal how "Tip was quicker" and "it's too fast for a manual box" so loads of people bought a Tip for that reason alone (not because they actually needed an automatic).

So you only need to mention "Tip"..."997 Turbo"...with any kind of issue regarding it not doing things you want it to when you want it to do them....and it (unfortunately) sets me off again ! Plus there was another thread recently where someone said "I want a Tip because it's quicker"...

Anyway, apologies for any offence as there was certainly non intended.

[AlexH997]

OggyDJ said:

Anyway, apologies for any offence as there was certainly non intended.

Dude I didn't take offence!

I appreciate your thoughts and response.

Pulling away in 2nd normally feels quite laboured compared to dropping to 1st gear unless you floor it hence the question

I guess fuel efficiency is the primary reason.

Cheers

[Callughan]

AlexH997 said:

Callughan said:

For smoothness and fuel economy.

As Mark mentioned when driven hard, it will recognise driving pattern and start in first.

Also when very cold it starts in 1st.

Define 'very cold'
In 12 months my car has never pulled away in 1st unless I'm on a hill

There's a temp when it kicks in, it's in the handbook maybe 3degrees and less.

Even my Cayenne starts in 1st when I drive in a spirited manner.

[Callughan]

OggyDJ said:

This fact of the Tip being quicker to 60 than a manual really amuses me

I know it is quicker on paper, but really, how much difference does it really make on the road (like car lengths) and more importantly (for me), what fun is there in planting your foot and just sitting there as a passenger while the car rockets towards the horizon ?

Have had a couple of childish (dual carriageway) traffic light GPs with my good friend who has a different marque but equally matched car in terms of 0-100. We only did it a couple of times but sometimes I just got the edge with the set-off and gear changes and sometimes he did. It was all down to the skill of the driver at that particular moment in time. It was fun and challenging. I think his car is rated at 4 seconds to 60 and mine is 3.8....makes bugger all difference on the road.

Please don't get me wrong, Tips are great if you do lots of commuting / heavy traffic work (or need one for medical reasons) but when people play the "I'm going Tip as it's quicker card"...just makes me chuckle.

Anyway, guess it sets off in 2nd as the software decides it's more efficient to do this ?? It's an automatic, that's what they do....decide for you what's best.

If you don't like it, suggest to buy a manual...

Hard to do a proper launch in manual, look at vmax.

997 turbo was first auto faster than manual 1.1 seconds quicker to 62.5 than 996 version. At the the time quickest production auto alledgedly.

[V8KSN]

supersport said:

I believe it aids bore scoring!

I think all or almost most auto boxes do this.

Yep, that's what I understand too. Have a read of all the Hartech guides on the matter but in summary, high torque low revs when the engine is warm is not good

[mrdemon]

gaxor said:

Personally I have never noticed it to be sluggish. Book figure 0-62 in 3.5s isn't sluggish and tip is quicker than manual to 62mph. If you want a 1st gear start engage sport mode and floor it. Hold 1st gear for about 0.1s

show me those book figures for a 997 tip

[f1ashgordon]

mns1977 said:

So no harm in pulling away in 2nd in a manual then?

Recommended to in a manual by the manual.

[GreatPretender]

f1ashgordon said:

mns1977 said:

So no harm in pulling away in 2nd in a manual then?

Recommended to in a manual by the manual.

Que?