Discussion
I have a 2002 996 and have been in touch with West Tuning about remapping the ecu, which I am told releases an extra 18-22 bhp , as authenticated by a rolling road.
Am seriously tempted
, can anyone let me know there thoughts if they have had it done and if it is worthwhile?
Are porkers that have been breathed on like this any less desirable when it comes to selling on etc?
Thanks
Batster
Am seriously tempted
, can anyone let me know there thoughts if they have had it done and if it is worthwhile? Are porkers that have been breathed on like this any less desirable when it comes to selling on etc?
Thanks
Batster
It will increase the strain on the engine, therefore reducing its lifespan and making it more prone to failure.
Any warranty on the car will be invalidated.
You'll have to tell your insurance company otherwise it could invalidate your insurance.
Apart from that, yes it tends to damage the resell value.
Any warranty on the car will be invalidated.
You'll have to tell your insurance company otherwise it could invalidate your insurance.
Apart from that, yes it tends to damage the resell value.
GreigM said:
It will increase the strain on the engine, therefore reducing its lifespan and making it more prone to failure.
Any warranty on the car will be invalidated.
You'll have to tell your insurance company otherwise it could invalidate your insurance.
Apart from that, yes it tends to damage the resell value.
Wonder what Colin at 9m would say to this... he's worked wonders with rolling road tuning on things like 964/993/996.
I plan on seeing him myself in the spring.
VS
surely if you are not driving it at full tilt pretty much the whole time (live in London!)that kind of increase in power is not going to cause undue strain if used infrequently?
My car will be three years old next year so little issue on the warranty front, so it is mightly tempting as car could definitely do with a bit more power and torque.
My car will be three years old next year so little issue on the warranty front, so it is mightly tempting as car could definitely do with a bit more power and torque.
All production cars are built well within their potential performance capabilities. There is quite alot of contingency built into all engines. An extra 20bhp will make no difference whatsover to the life of the motor. Example is the Factory upgrade for the 993tt or 996tt. From 400hp to 450hp and 415hp to 450hp respectively. Only mods are bigger Turbos, extra oil cooler and ne ECU. No engine strengthening mods whatsoever.
The remap will also give most (if not all) of this increase at the top end (as in the examples above). You may actually find the bottom end a bit weaker which theoretically would increase engine longevity.
If you live in London as you mentioned, how can you drive "at full tilt" most of the time?
>> Edited by silver993tt on Wednesday 10th November 11:24
The remap will also give most (if not all) of this increase at the top end (as in the examples above). You may actually find the bottom end a bit weaker which theoretically would increase engine longevity.
If you live in London as you mentioned, how can you drive "at full tilt" most of the time?
>> Edited by silver993tt on Wednesday 10th November 11:24
We usually see a peak gain in the range of 25bhp after remapping any 996 model, sometimes more.
As for stressing the engine, our supercharged 3.6 996 is putting out 482bhp at the crank, so another 20bhp is unlikely to stress the engine at all and will make absolutely no difference to longevity.
Anyway, since all the 996 and boxsters we have tested to date have failed to make standard factory HP, does that mean that the engines will last longer and Porsche will extend the warranty? No, I didn't think so either!
As for stressing the engine, our supercharged 3.6 996 is putting out 482bhp at the crank, so another 20bhp is unlikely to stress the engine at all and will make absolutely no difference to longevity.
Anyway, since all the 996 and boxsters we have tested to date have failed to make standard factory HP, does that mean that the engines will last longer and Porsche will extend the warranty? No, I didn't think so either!
The other modification West told me about was making the throttle on my car 19% bigger so it can flow more air,on the basis that if you can increase the air flow into the engine you increase the fuelling to gain more power. In the old day people would put twin carb's on car's to get the same effect apparently, and West have fitted been big bore throttle's for VR6 golf's 8/9 bhp New mini cooper S 9/10 bhp BMW X5 4.4/ 4.6 V8 13/14 bhp BMW 330 10/11 bhp Audi S4 4.2 V8 11/12.
They have seen 11-13 bhp increase on a 996 as a result.
Again, would welcome comments.
They have seen 11-13 bhp increase on a 996 as a result.
Again, would welcome comments.
ninemeister said:
Porsche will extend the warranty? No, I didn't think so either!
My point is not if they extend the warranty, but where does your warranty stand if the engine goes pop. My boxster engine blew recently and the OPC spent 2 days under instruction from Porsche AG looking for a reason not to pay the warranty claim for a new engine - £12K cost. I believe this included downloading the ECU mapping and all logged data and sending it back to germany and not just the usual check for level 2 overrevs etc. Are ECU upgrades entirely undetectable to Porsche AG? If so fair enough, if not then people should be aware of the (admittedly unlikely) position they may be in.
I'm not against ECU upgrades - I know many people who have had older cars done for reasons of smoothing out the power delivery, correct over-fuelling, improve throttle response, remove flat spots etc. All I am saying is that any additional power will put additional stress on components which perhaps don't have the margin for error that many people believe - the number of 996 engine failures at OPCs would startle you, and the days of Porsche heavily over-engineering components left with air cooling. A good example as someone mentioned above is the Porsche X50 upgrade on the TT - bigger turbos, coolers, upgraded gearbox, different exhaust components and possibly uprated clutch alongside mild ECU remap - if it was that easy to get the 30bhp gain from the TT safely with a simple ECU remap I ake the question why Porsche themselves did not do it this way?
ninemeister said:
We usually see a peak gain in the range of 25bhp after remapping any 996 model, sometimes more.
As for stressing the engine, our supercharged 3.6 996 is putting out 482bhp at the crank, so another 20bhp is unlikely to stress the engine at all and will make absolutely no difference to longevity.
Colin,
Do you do a SC conversion for a 996 C4 (3.4, tiptronic)? If so, what's the total cost and how long does the conversion take?
I'm seriously considering having this done ASAP.
Thanks
Yes, the same kit will for the 3.4 but we run it at a slightly slower speed for around 420-430bhp. This is the centrifugal system which runs with air/water/air charge cooling, larger injectors and ecu remap. Athough the power & torque increase, the torque gain is linear up to the redline, this progressive delivery will be kinder to the tiptronic than a similar positive dispacement system.
You will have to contact the office for the latest price, speak to Steve on 01925 242342.
The basic conversion will take around 5-7 days from the point of having all the components in stock, although in practise this can take 3 weeks depending on workload.
You will have to contact the office for the latest price, speak to Steve on 01925 242342.
The basic conversion will take around 5-7 days from the point of having all the components in stock, although in practise this can take 3 weeks depending on workload.
ninemeister said:
...so if the engine goes pop with 20bhp less than the design specification, how can they argue that with more power it exceeds the warranty expectation?
The bhp figure is not the issue - the detectability of any non-porsche approved modifications is. The car is not warranted upon a bhp figure, it is warranted on the basis of how it left the factory and was maintained to Porsche standards. That's like asking argos why they won't refund your toaster after you rewired it - the net effect is irrelevant, the fact that it was modified at all is the important part.
GreigM said:Whilst I respect your viewpoint Greig and heaven forbid Emma has to go through this with her Boxster, it is worth mentioning that on all 996 engines there was a FACTORY option of about 20 extra ponies. I'll wager that Porsche did absolutely sod all to the main parts of the engine and it is simply an ECU remap / exhaust.
...so if the engine goes pop with 20bhp less than the design specification, how can they argue that with more power it exceeds the warranty expectation?
The bhp figure is not the issue - the detectability of any non-porsche approved modifications is. The car is not warranted upon a bhp figure, it is warranted on the basis of how it left the factory and was maintained to Porsche standards. That's like asking argos why they won't refund your toaster after you rewired it - the net effect is irrelevant, the fact that it was modified at all is the important part.
If I got short shrift from Porsche on this, particularly with a FPSH, I'd be pretty pissed off.
GregE240 said:
ninemeister said:
...so if the engine goes pop with 20bhp less than the design specification, how can they argue that with more power it exceeds the warranty expectation?
The bhp figure is not the issue - the detectability of any non-porsche approved modifications is. The car is not warranted upon a bhp figure, it is warranted on the basis of how it left the factory and was maintained to Porsche standards. That's like asking argos why they won't refund your toaster after you rewired it - the net effect is irrelevant, the fact that it was modified at all is the important part.
Whilst I respect your viewpoint Greig and heaven forbid Emma has to go through this with her Boxster, it is worth mentioning that on all 996 engines there was a FACTORY option of about 20 extra ponies. I'll wager that Porsche did absolutely sod all to the main parts of the engine and it is simply an ECU remap / exhaust.
If I got short shrift from Porsche on this, particularly with a FPSH, I'd be pretty pissed off.
...actually Greg, the Porsche 'Tequipment' Powerkit that can be retrofitted is described on the Porsche website thus:
The Carrera Powerkit offers an increase in power output from 221 kW to 235 kW on all 911 Carrera models up to 12/00. A similar package is available for the post-08/01 Carrera, boosting power from 235 kW to 254 kW. Modifications include a new alloy induction manifold, cylinder heads, exhaust manifolds and camshafts, as well as revised engine management software.
Therefore, it's a lot more than an ECU remap.
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