997 - Winter Tyres in the warmer weather
Discussion
Have been driving around on Winter tyres since late November and plan to change back to Summers as soon as we get some sustained warmer (+10c) weather.
However down south it's been pretty warm over the last week or so - and driving the car has been a bit of a revelation. To explain - the car has been more mobile and "communicative" with the winter tyres on. It's not unruly at all, in fact it's been totally biddable - but have really enjoyed having the car move about a bit underneath, letting you know the grip levels and allowing a bit more yaw and slip angle when going around corners. It's been really quite enjoyable!
I haven't noticed a real loss in grip and the braking distances haven't become worse - demonstrably so anyway. The car remains totally under control but it just generally "feels" (seat of the pants wise) more alive. I certainly hope the winters aren't shedding loads of tyre in doing so (the wear looks good actually as have been checking) but it certainly makes the car feel good.
So it got me thinking - are we killing our cars by buying the best possible rubber grip wise - which is then leading to a detrimental loss in feel in attaining that extra grip? I have just bought a set of brand new MPSS tyres ready for the Summer - hope they remain as communicative as the Winters are!
Thoughts?
However down south it's been pretty warm over the last week or so - and driving the car has been a bit of a revelation. To explain - the car has been more mobile and "communicative" with the winter tyres on. It's not unruly at all, in fact it's been totally biddable - but have really enjoyed having the car move about a bit underneath, letting you know the grip levels and allowing a bit more yaw and slip angle when going around corners. It's been really quite enjoyable!
I haven't noticed a real loss in grip and the braking distances haven't become worse - demonstrably so anyway. The car remains totally under control but it just generally "feels" (seat of the pants wise) more alive. I certainly hope the winters aren't shedding loads of tyre in doing so (the wear looks good actually as have been checking) but it certainly makes the car feel good.
So it got me thinking - are we killing our cars by buying the best possible rubber grip wise - which is then leading to a detrimental loss in feel in attaining that extra grip? I have just bought a set of brand new MPSS tyres ready for the Summer - hope they remain as communicative as the Winters are!
Thoughts?
Schaeffs, you have come to realise what most never do. Super high grip levels mean that you never reach the fun part of driving. Or if you do, you are going so fast as to be worrying about the huge accident you are going to have if you don't get it exactly right.
Progress isn't always what you really want.
Once you have fitted your summer tyres, come back and give us an update.
Progress isn't always what you really want.
Once you have fitted your summer tyres, come back and give us an update.
Interesting points guys.
Molly - yes you are right - but we all aren't going to go around in a C63 with space savers on (a la Chris Harris) to get there - there must be a middle road eh?
Flash - it's like a rubber v enjoyment moment!
The best way I can put it is when you are on track for 20+ laps and your tyres go off a bit and they start sliding around more - it's the same feeling but without the sliding...
Molly - yes you are right - but we all aren't going to go around in a C63 with space savers on (a la Chris Harris) to get there - there must be a middle road eh?
Flash - it's like a rubber v enjoyment moment!
The best way I can put it is when you are on track for 20+ laps and your tyres go off a bit and they start sliding around more - it's the same feeling but without the sliding...
Personally I am getting to the point where the Sottozeros are going to have to come off. It was very mild here yesterday and they were not especially nice - very fidgety (even cruising on a straight road, though this is on a GT3 with some extra camber) and not a lot of grip. When it is cold and wet they are great and it is positively amazing how well they hold a damp road in 3 degree temperatures. But at the cusp of double digits they aren't working right and seem to have markedly less grip than when it is colder.
Cup 2s will be going on my other wheels, but once they are on (waiting for mytyres to ship the fronts at the moment) I may well unmount the Pirellis on my winter wheels and swap for Supersports.
Cup 2s will be going on my other wheels, but once they are on (waiting for mytyres to ship the fronts at the moment) I may well unmount the Pirellis on my winter wheels and swap for Supersports.
Yes - I agree that the car does feel a bit more nervous at the straight ahead - it seems to move about a bit more on the treadblocks but to me it doesn't put me off at all - in fact that's what makes the car feel a bit more "alive". I can see why that could make you lose confidence in the car though as it is a step change - hence why I think it was a bit of a revelation! As for loss of grip - it really doesn't feel that worse off when braking or indeed in a corner - but yes the reference has been these tyres i nthe cold weather so will have to report back when it's warmer and on MPSS.
schaeffs said:
Yes - I agree that the car does feel a bit more nervous at the straight ahead - it seems to move about a bit more on the treadblocks but to me it doesn't put me off at all - in fact that's what makes the car feel a bit more "alive". I can see why that could make you lose confidence in the car though as it is a step change - hence why I think it was a bit of a revelation! As for loss of grip - it really doesn't feel that worse off when braking or indeed in a corner - but yes the reference has been these tyres i nthe cold weather so will have to report back when it's warmer and on MPSS.
It isn't a confidence thing - last year I had to briefly drive on Cups in snow and that certainly focusses your attention (although no worse than in torrential rain to be honest). It doesn't bother me as such with the car moving about a bit, but the take away is that the drop off in grip as the temperature goes up is much more pronounced than I was expecting. As a consequence I also expect that they will wear out much faster with warmer temperature, so all told better to get them off sooner rather than later this year so unless another cold snap rolls in soon I'll take them off. This is the first time that I have had winters on the toy car (I got them for the wheels that they were mounted on at a very agreeable price) - my previous experience of winters being on cooking hatchbacks and the like, so the behaviour of the Sottozeros was a little unexpected in that they seem to have a much narrower usable operating range than something like a Goodyear Ultragrip in a civilian size... ?drmark said:
You should try an old 911 on 185 / 70s if you like a car to move under you!
Yeah, feels quite scary if you're used to modern tyres. Mixed in with some aero lift too and it feels more like you're floating along the road. Ride is comfy though!Back on topic, I'm finding Nokian winters on my 997 pretty awesome, although weather here is still pretty cold and wet. I reckon another month before swapping to summer tyres.
RiccardoG said:
Hmmm... not so sure myself. I find my winters (Nokian WRs) actually spoil the fun considerably. They give me less confidence on the twisties and are very floaty at higher speeds. I haven't felt what you're saying at all.
I'm with /\/\ on this. I have winter contis on my car and the handling is not good. OP - try braking hard from above 80 mph, it's squirm-tastic.DiscoColin said:
It isn't a confidence thing - last year I had to briefly drive on Cups in snow and that certainly focusses your attention (although no worse than in torrential rain to be honest). It doesn't bother me as such with the car moving about a bit, but the take away is that the drop off in grip as the temperature goes up is much more pronounced than I was expecting. As a consequence I also expect that they will wear out much faster with warmer temperature, so all told better to get them off sooner rather than later this year so unless another cold snap rolls in soon I'll take them off. This is the first time that I have had winters on the toy car (I got them for the wheels that they were mounted on at a very agreeable price) - my previous experience of winters being on cooking hatchbacks and the like, so the behaviour of the Sottozeros was a little unexpected in that they seem to have a much narrower usable operating range than something like a Goodyear Ultragrip in a civilian size... ?
It was Riccardo who's confidence was dimmed rather than yours - Interesting to note you are on Sottozero's - I have smapled these on another car and whilst great in the snow leave a lot to be desired when the temp warms up a bit - like the current conditions. The Conti's currently on the car seem to operate much better in the "transitional" type conditions we have been having from my perspective.Goldblum - what Conti's do you have on your car? Have to say I have tried braking hard (not from 80 of course!) and whilst the car does move around a little more (squirm) it's not bad by any stretch of the imagination and the braking distances whilst a little longer are also no cause for concern at these current temps. That may have something to do with CentreGravity's suspension set up and the fact my car is on -20mm suspension. I also noticed that there is a positive difference to these aspects when you are on PASM.
Also to note - have driven a different car on the TS830Ps way outside it's operating window - read 15 degrees - and yes by then they are much worse braking and squirm wise...
Anyway - food for thought - thanks guys for all your input and I'll be enjoying the car for a little longer on the winters (hoping I don't shed too much rubber in the interim!)
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff