How to value my cat d 993
Discussion
I don't know anything about the repairs that were carried out 10 years ago. The vendor didn't know when I bought the car a few years before me. I did an extensive test drive and I couldn't fault the ride or handling of this 993.
Although, I did speak to the specialist who looked after the car for years for the vendor and he said that they knew the car well and it had been properly repaired. My Porsche specialist has serviced and looked after the car during my ownership and he says that any repairs were carried out very well. It is worth noting that the car is Cat D rather than the more serious Cat C.
I have had 11 porsches over the last 30 years and I honestly cannot tell that it was damaged and repaired 10 years ago.
Although, I did speak to the specialist who looked after the car for years for the vendor and he said that they knew the car well and it had been properly repaired. My Porsche specialist has serviced and looked after the car during my ownership and he says that any repairs were carried out very well. It is worth noting that the car is Cat D rather than the more serious Cat C.
I have had 11 porsches over the last 30 years and I honestly cannot tell that it was damaged and repaired 10 years ago.
belfry said:
So, in terms of setting or establishing an agreed value for the insurers, do I just take 25% off the value of a non cat d car? If so, where would you start for a non accident damaged car?
It depends on many variables, but if yours was 10 years ago and done to a high standard, 25% could be a little high.Its a vario manual Carrera coupe which is very sought after, so you should still get strongish money for it.
But, you will have to research the damage and be able to at least point it out to a buyer. Maybe get a report on it?
Thats the crux I think.
bigee said:
The damage may not have been bodywork as such ? Maybe it was 'paint' only (vandalized? ) or electrical,stolen recovered but no damage? Just a thought....
Absolutely! It might just be a stolen recovered with cosmetic damage! Or flood damage. Etc etc.But buyers will want to know. Especially 993 buyers Im afraid. Fussy b
ds!belfry said:
Thanks Molly.
For an agreed insurance value will I need to provide a report for the insurance company? Or do I just suggest a value to them based on values of cars in the classifieds and then pay my premiums on that figure?
It depends on the company, you will need to ask them. Classicline accept written confirmation from TIPEC.For an agreed insurance value will I need to provide a report for the insurance company? Or do I just suggest a value to them based on values of cars in the classifieds and then pay my premiums on that figure?
Damage on a Cat Deeley may not be extensive at all , not unknown for courtesy car costs to tip the balance in favour of a total loss for the insurance company to pay out.
I don't think there would be any way of firming up the exact damage other than tracing through a previous owner / insurance co hence some contact with previous owners might turn up an answer.
Wouldn't condem the car to 25% less than market value . Imagine trying to replace it with another if the worst happened - it would be difficult so I would say IMHO a slight margin less than normal market value.......
I don't think there would be any way of firming up the exact damage other than tracing through a previous owner / insurance co hence some contact with previous owners might turn up an answer.
Wouldn't condem the car to 25% less than market value . Imagine trying to replace it with another if the worst happened - it would be difficult so I would say IMHO a slight margin less than normal market value.......
bigfella70 said:
Wouldn't condem the car to 25% less than market value . Imagine trying to replace it with another if the worst happened - it would be difficult so I would say IMHO a slight margin less than normal market value.......
Ok, so what should I use as a base normal market price for a 1996 77k 6spd manual coupe in blue with linen leather? I can then subtract something from that figure.£24,000?
belfry said:
Ok, so what should I use as a base normal market price for a 1996 77k 6spd manual coupe in blue with linen leather? I can then subtract something from that figure.
£24,000?
For a good one with that mileage, I would say;£24,000?
23k trade
25k private sale
30k retail with warranty etc
That's where the market is right now IMO.
To be honest, catD does not usually mean the cost of repairs were more than a percentage of the value of the car, but it means for some other reason the insurers did not repair the car.
With most cars it often means that the car was stolen and not recovered until after the insurance had made a payout, in which case they put a Cat-D on it and put it through the salvage auctions, sometimes they do not even bother doing the paperwork to make it a catD, but sometimes they do.
However with a Porsche, I know my old black 968 ClubSport was a cat-d, back in 1998 it had a parking shunt which cracked the back bumper, the owner refused to let the directline bodyshop do the work, so the insurance company paid him out on the car and he bought back the salvage, had Porsche repair it and pocketed the difference.. Made no difference to the car, I had photos before the repair and a receipt for the work, so I was happy that the story checked out with some evidence, but even without it, cat-d is not a big deal.
But for the same reasons as above, a cat-d on a Porsche often means there was a tussle over the claim and even though it was an ecconomic repair, for some reason it got the D marker, often because the insurance companies want people to know it has had an incident which they can not be liable for.
Cat C on the other hand can be tricky, often meaning an unnecconomic repair where the cost of repairs are more than 75% of the insurance value.. This is where you need to be a little more careful.
For a cat-d, if it is a day to day Porsche like a Boxster. Then I would say I would probably still advertise it for a reasonable price without too much discount on it, maybe 10% bellow what an equal car is selling for.
If it was a cat-c, then I would probably say the market value should be maybe 20% less to reflect that in the event of a future claim, the insurance company may mark down the value for claim purposes by 20-25% to reflect the cat-c marker.
However for insurance valuation, whoever values the car needs to ignore the cat-d and concentrate on the car condition and current market, as an insurance company will probably try to knock 10% off even an agreed valuation, or up to 25% off in the case of a cat-c
The last bit of advice from me would be to remember that insurance is not there to give you just market value or what a book says a car is worth, but you need it to insure that in the event of a problem you are compensated for your loss of a car you have invested in, so the valuation needs to reflect what it would cost to replace the car in the current market and do what needs to be done to it to get it up to the same level of service and condition as your current car.
Back about 10 years ago I had a customer with a wonderful manual 928GTS. The owner of this car had even paid Porsche for a new factory engine, new suspension all round, he really did throw money at the car.. Unfortunately his car caught fire on the motorway in a freak accident.. However luckily he had an agreed valuation with his insurance company for £50k based on my report of the replacement cost of his car. Back then a GTS was worth about £15k, his insurance paid out on it without quibble and accepted my report several months earlier without hesitation. The moral of the story is to remember that car insurance is there to compensate for your loss, not to be a buyer for your car in the event of an accident.
Hope this helps.
With most cars it often means that the car was stolen and not recovered until after the insurance had made a payout, in which case they put a Cat-D on it and put it through the salvage auctions, sometimes they do not even bother doing the paperwork to make it a catD, but sometimes they do.
However with a Porsche, I know my old black 968 ClubSport was a cat-d, back in 1998 it had a parking shunt which cracked the back bumper, the owner refused to let the directline bodyshop do the work, so the insurance company paid him out on the car and he bought back the salvage, had Porsche repair it and pocketed the difference.. Made no difference to the car, I had photos before the repair and a receipt for the work, so I was happy that the story checked out with some evidence, but even without it, cat-d is not a big deal.
But for the same reasons as above, a cat-d on a Porsche often means there was a tussle over the claim and even though it was an ecconomic repair, for some reason it got the D marker, often because the insurance companies want people to know it has had an incident which they can not be liable for.
Cat C on the other hand can be tricky, often meaning an unnecconomic repair where the cost of repairs are more than 75% of the insurance value.. This is where you need to be a little more careful.
For a cat-d, if it is a day to day Porsche like a Boxster. Then I would say I would probably still advertise it for a reasonable price without too much discount on it, maybe 10% bellow what an equal car is selling for.
If it was a cat-c, then I would probably say the market value should be maybe 20% less to reflect that in the event of a future claim, the insurance company may mark down the value for claim purposes by 20-25% to reflect the cat-c marker.
However for insurance valuation, whoever values the car needs to ignore the cat-d and concentrate on the car condition and current market, as an insurance company will probably try to knock 10% off even an agreed valuation, or up to 25% off in the case of a cat-c
The last bit of advice from me would be to remember that insurance is not there to give you just market value or what a book says a car is worth, but you need it to insure that in the event of a problem you are compensated for your loss of a car you have invested in, so the valuation needs to reflect what it would cost to replace the car in the current market and do what needs to be done to it to get it up to the same level of service and condition as your current car.
Back about 10 years ago I had a customer with a wonderful manual 928GTS. The owner of this car had even paid Porsche for a new factory engine, new suspension all round, he really did throw money at the car.. Unfortunately his car caught fire on the motorway in a freak accident.. However luckily he had an agreed valuation with his insurance company for £50k based on my report of the replacement cost of his car. Back then a GTS was worth about £15k, his insurance paid out on it without quibble and accepted my report several months earlier without hesitation. The moral of the story is to remember that car insurance is there to compensate for your loss, not to be a buyer for your car in the event of an accident.
Hope this helps.
FWIW. I'm not a great believer that the posibility of an unreasonably big repair bill compared to value, gets a car an automatic CAT D status, I also cannot understand where people state, it was only a small amount of damage, but they stil wrote it off.
I managed to spin my 964 over 10 years ago, and it was still repaired. Basically I lost in the wet, spun her on the road and in true 911 style she slid backwards until hitting into an embankment that came up to the verge, at a speed of around 20MPH. Yet the bill for repair was circa 10K, and at the time, absolute top value on my LHD 911 was 12.5K. Yet it was still repaired.
The exterior damage was ...... A cracked offside rear light, a depressed, not cracked offside rear bumper (Which was repaired, not replaced) and a dragging exhaust tip. I carried on and drove her to work.
It was underneath where the damage was not visable where the cost was. NOT the bodywork you could see. The list of parts was four pages long. Not one part was engine related.
Therefore, I'd say most CAT Ds damage was far worse than mine suffered, and because of it I wouldn't buy one personally.
Value rise, I'd say 25% lower value would be expected, which is still good for the seller, as I'm guessing he originally paid 25% less with the CAT D in place in the first place.
Nice car though OP. All the best with it.
I managed to spin my 964 over 10 years ago, and it was still repaired. Basically I lost in the wet, spun her on the road and in true 911 style she slid backwards until hitting into an embankment that came up to the verge, at a speed of around 20MPH. Yet the bill for repair was circa 10K, and at the time, absolute top value on my LHD 911 was 12.5K. Yet it was still repaired.
The exterior damage was ...... A cracked offside rear light, a depressed, not cracked offside rear bumper (Which was repaired, not replaced) and a dragging exhaust tip. I carried on and drove her to work.
It was underneath where the damage was not visable where the cost was. NOT the bodywork you could see. The list of parts was four pages long. Not one part was engine related.
Therefore, I'd say most CAT Ds damage was far worse than mine suffered, and because of it I wouldn't buy one personally.
Value rise, I'd say 25% lower value would be expected, which is still good for the seller, as I'm guessing he originally paid 25% less with the CAT D in place in the first place.
Nice car though OP. All the best with it.
Edited by Wozy68 on Wednesday 9th April 11:49
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff