Porsche club championship brands hatch
Discussion
Well done to Peter Morris at the weekend.some great racing,the 2 996 s in the first race were a class above rhe rest,and some good racing all the way down the grid, Felt sorry for the guy in the red 968 in the 1st race he go puntted off by a green boxster and then in the 2nd race got run off the track at paddock hill bend by a VERY VERY WIDE silver boxster,well done to drivers and teams who took part
I do hope that second incident is shown on the TV replay - and would then be interested what others think about the previous comment. I guess when we see incidents we naturally see the one we follow or are interested in differently (like our football it always seems my team get a bad decision - until I see the replay that is) or perhaps we just review it differently.
I know I am guilty of it but saw that completely differently from just above Paddock Hill - but I know it may not look so obvious when I see the replay - glad no one was hurt and the cars survived well.
Baz
I know I am guilty of it but saw that completely differently from just above Paddock Hill - but I know it may not look so obvious when I see the replay - glad no one was hurt and the cars survived well.
Baz
I watched Stuarts vid and its 50/50 in my view, Mark took what looked like the classic high line entry thinking he was past but when the contact was made his car was only in front by maybe 4 feet or so not even half way in front. Stuart would have had to have taken avoiding action to the right to avoid the collision but IMHO why on earth should he have done that when Mark was not at least 1/2 to 2/3rds a car in front?
May as well post the link to the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yPPI82tjhM&fea...
Here's the comments I put on Facebook:
"No weaving but it shows how even a light touch can end one's race. I wasn't there, haven't seen any other footage or spoken to anyone but from that video it looks like a racing incident, probably a minor misjudgement from Mark (if he'd been just an inch or two further out there'd've been no contact and it would've been great to watch you go through that corner side by side) who sadly who had to suffer the consequences."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yPPI82tjhM&fea...
Here's the comments I put on Facebook:
"No weaving but it shows how even a light touch can end one's race. I wasn't there, haven't seen any other footage or spoken to anyone but from that video it looks like a racing incident, probably a minor misjudgement from Mark (if he'd been just an inch or two further out there'd've been no contact and it would've been great to watch you go through that corner side by side) who sadly who had to suffer the consequences."
hartech said:
I do hope that second incident is shown on the TV replay - and would then be interested what others think about the previous comment. I guess when we see incidents we naturally see the one we follow or are interested in differently (like our football it always seems my team get a bad decision - until I see the replay that is) or perhaps we just review it differently.
I know I am guilty of it but saw that completely differently from just above Paddock Hill - but I know it may not look so obvious when I see the replay - glad no one was hurt and the cars survived well.
Baz
Personally I think the Boxster still owned the corner, the 968 wasn't far enough past to own it and shouldn't have turned in IMO. I know I am guilty of it but saw that completely differently from just above Paddock Hill - but I know it may not look so obvious when I see the replay - glad no one was hurt and the cars survived well.
Baz
G.
mollytherocker said:
The Boxster had the corner but I think that was a racing incident.
Perhaps 30% on the Boxster?
It was a racing incident. But forget percentages. When you are racing you are pushing the limit of your ability. Wether you are quick or not you are still trying your best, or should be. I am lucky to have had the opportunity to race against the very best. The one thing you learn in racing is you cannot allow yourself to be bullied. I've met racing drivers that believe that the race is won in the paddock. There is a lot to be said of that.Perhaps 30% on the Boxster?
Take Vinnie Jones for example, the hard man of football. If you are going into a tackle against Vinnie, just that thought that he might break my leg and end your career is enough for you to gift him the ball. The same can be said of motor racing.
But equally to finish first. First you have to finish. In racing there is a very fine line between hero and zero.
I have been trying to explain this to the missus for 20 years and I still get a b
king if she feels that I have not done my absolute best 
Though looking at ones own responsibility and involvement after any incident is always beneficial as a learning process. From this perspective % are as good as anything in terms of understanding responsibility i suppose.
I look at that video though and only see a car that was never going to be able to make both a pass and its way round the corner. It was only ever one or the other from the moment the move was started and its no more complicated than that.
In that light it was a mistake by the overtaking car - both in going for the move and then in dealing with the realisation of what was happening (if it did) - and nothing to do with the camera car. Its not his responsibility to evaporate and he kept line.
Inexperience, frustration, brain fart, simple misjudgement etc, there are many reasons why mistakes are made. All that is important from a racing perspective is how one deals with it. Hopefully the driver that went off apologised and learned from it. All IMHO of course.
Anyways, enough keyboard quarterbacking from me!
I look at that video though and only see a car that was never going to be able to make both a pass and its way round the corner. It was only ever one or the other from the moment the move was started and its no more complicated than that.
In that light it was a mistake by the overtaking car - both in going for the move and then in dealing with the realisation of what was happening (if it did) - and nothing to do with the camera car. Its not his responsibility to evaporate and he kept line.
Inexperience, frustration, brain fart, simple misjudgement etc, there are many reasons why mistakes are made. All that is important from a racing perspective is how one deals with it. Hopefully the driver that went off apologised and learned from it. All IMHO of course.
Anyways, enough keyboard quarterbacking from me!
Yes - now I have seen the video it was as I remembered it and the evidence of the nice new paint being rubbed off from the front to rear side sill of the Boxster - is a further demonstration that the pass was not made far enough by to cut in to the inside line.
I think the COMMENT I took exception to was that that the red car was "run off the track by a VERY VERY WIDE BOXSTER" - but I didn't want to become argumentative until I had seen the replay (as I know when you are following your own driver - or footy team your opinion is often inaccurate when you do review the evidence) but I am glad that the other responses saw it as I did.
But it was I guess just a racing incident - both the drivers are great guys for whom I have the greatest respect and we all know how frustration can set in (and Mark had good reason to be frustrated) and can result in moves that may have been handled differently in a cooler light.
Stuart didn't seem to me to take any different line that he had all day and there was no where else for him to go - so it is unfair to criticise him - especially as harshly as the first post - for which in my view an apology would be appropriate.
The performances in the first event suggest it is going to be a great seasons racing in both classes. Class one was really close with a great drive from Pete Morris, and the Paragon guys and in class 2 from the same drivers who finished 2nd and third last season.
Stuart gave us a great double win in a different class, John McCullagh in his first race in our 2013 class winning Boxster S was not far behind the leading class 1 drivers (all of whom except Tom had driven their cars last season and/or the season before - being familiar with them and having had a long time to develop them) and finished despite a stone having punctured a radiator and the temperature soaring as the race went on and Tom managed to bring our development 996 home first in race 1 from a double pole (a position he shared with Stuart in class 2) after completing 2 full race length tests on the Friday (to assess tyre wear and fuel consumption)and race.
The new suspension idea seems to be working reasonably well and it will be interesting when we review the Video showing the damper movements linked to the car position and "G" forces - to work out exactly what each corner of the car is doing under braking and cornering and see how close we managed to set the car up (although it is unlikely to be right first time and it must be possible to improve it further as the season progresses - something it looks like we need to do to keep in front of Pete).
It looked like a perfect weekend for us until something made the 996 shut down on the warm up lap for race 2. The video shows it just slowly losing power while under no strain or revs - as if the fuel had stopped flowing - it is going to be a busy week finding out what the fault is and fixing it in time for next weekend at Croft together with the radiator etc - but that is racing and we are well pleased with our results.
It is not going to be easy for anyone this season and I hope that close exciting racing results - that the TV exposure will demonstrate - to help promote the series in the eyes of the public and help Porsche Club Racing to go on to bigger and better things in the future and the grids to expand in the process.
Baz
I think the COMMENT I took exception to was that that the red car was "run off the track by a VERY VERY WIDE BOXSTER" - but I didn't want to become argumentative until I had seen the replay (as I know when you are following your own driver - or footy team your opinion is often inaccurate when you do review the evidence) but I am glad that the other responses saw it as I did.
But it was I guess just a racing incident - both the drivers are great guys for whom I have the greatest respect and we all know how frustration can set in (and Mark had good reason to be frustrated) and can result in moves that may have been handled differently in a cooler light.
Stuart didn't seem to me to take any different line that he had all day and there was no where else for him to go - so it is unfair to criticise him - especially as harshly as the first post - for which in my view an apology would be appropriate.
The performances in the first event suggest it is going to be a great seasons racing in both classes. Class one was really close with a great drive from Pete Morris, and the Paragon guys and in class 2 from the same drivers who finished 2nd and third last season.
Stuart gave us a great double win in a different class, John McCullagh in his first race in our 2013 class winning Boxster S was not far behind the leading class 1 drivers (all of whom except Tom had driven their cars last season and/or the season before - being familiar with them and having had a long time to develop them) and finished despite a stone having punctured a radiator and the temperature soaring as the race went on and Tom managed to bring our development 996 home first in race 1 from a double pole (a position he shared with Stuart in class 2) after completing 2 full race length tests on the Friday (to assess tyre wear and fuel consumption)and race.
The new suspension idea seems to be working reasonably well and it will be interesting when we review the Video showing the damper movements linked to the car position and "G" forces - to work out exactly what each corner of the car is doing under braking and cornering and see how close we managed to set the car up (although it is unlikely to be right first time and it must be possible to improve it further as the season progresses - something it looks like we need to do to keep in front of Pete).
It looked like a perfect weekend for us until something made the 996 shut down on the warm up lap for race 2. The video shows it just slowly losing power while under no strain or revs - as if the fuel had stopped flowing - it is going to be a busy week finding out what the fault is and fixing it in time for next weekend at Croft together with the radiator etc - but that is racing and we are well pleased with our results.
It is not going to be easy for anyone this season and I hope that close exciting racing results - that the TV exposure will demonstrate - to help promote the series in the eyes of the public and help Porsche Club Racing to go on to bigger and better things in the future and the grids to expand in the process.
Baz
hartech said:
Yes - now I have seen the video it was as I remembered it and the evidence of the nice new paint being rubbed off from the front to rear side sill of the Boxster - is a further demonstration that the pass was not made far enough by to cut in to the inside line.
I think the COMMENT I took exception to was that that the red car was "run off the track by a VERY VERY WIDE BOXSTER" - but I didn't want to become argumentative until I had seen the replay (as I know when you are following your own driver - or footy team your opinion is often inaccurate when you do review the evidence) but I am glad that the other responses saw it as I did.
But it was I guess just a racing incident - both the drivers are great guys for whom I have the greatest respect and we all know how frustration can set in (and Mark had good reason to be frustrated) and can result in moves that may have been handled differently in a cooler light.
Stuart didn't seem to me to take any different line that he had all day and there was no where else for him to go - so it is unfair to criticise him - especially as harshly as the first post - for which in my view an apology would be appropriate.
The performances in the first event suggest it is going to be a great seasons racing in both classes. Class one was really close with a great drive from Pete Morris, and the Paragon guys and in class 2 from the same drivers who finished 2nd and third last season.
Stuart gave us a great double win in a different class, John McCullagh in his first race in our 2013 class winning Boxster S was not far behind the leading class 1 drivers (all of whom except Tom had driven their cars last season and/or the season before - being familiar with them and having had a long time to develop them) and finished despite a stone having punctured a radiator and the temperature soaring as the race went on and Tom managed to bring our development 996 home first in race 1 from a double pole (a position he shared with Stuart in class 2) after completing 2 full race length tests on the Friday (to assess tyre wear and fuel consumption)and race.
The new suspension idea seems to be working reasonably well and it will be interesting when we review the Video showing the damper movements linked to the car position and "G" forces - to work out exactly what each corner of the car is doing under braking and cornering and see how close we managed to set the car up (although it is unlikely to be right first time and it must be possible to improve it further as the season progresses - something it looks like we need to do to keep in front of Pete).
It looked like a perfect weekend for us until something made the 996 shut down on the warm up lap for race 2. The video shows it just slowly losing power while under no strain or revs - as if the fuel had stopped flowing - it is going to be a busy week finding out what the fault is and fixing it in time for next weekend at Croft together with the radiator etc - but that is racing and we are well pleased with our results.
It is not going to be easy for anyone this season and I hope that close exciting racing results - that the TV exposure will demonstrate - to help promote the series in the eyes of the public and help Porsche Club Racing to go on to bigger and better things in the future and the grids to expand in the process.
Baz
Looks like it was a well sorted car from the vid. Were they standard gear ratios ?, sounded shorter than I remember from driving a Boxster. I think the COMMENT I took exception to was that that the red car was "run off the track by a VERY VERY WIDE BOXSTER" - but I didn't want to become argumentative until I had seen the replay (as I know when you are following your own driver - or footy team your opinion is often inaccurate when you do review the evidence) but I am glad that the other responses saw it as I did.
But it was I guess just a racing incident - both the drivers are great guys for whom I have the greatest respect and we all know how frustration can set in (and Mark had good reason to be frustrated) and can result in moves that may have been handled differently in a cooler light.
Stuart didn't seem to me to take any different line that he had all day and there was no where else for him to go - so it is unfair to criticise him - especially as harshly as the first post - for which in my view an apology would be appropriate.
The performances in the first event suggest it is going to be a great seasons racing in both classes. Class one was really close with a great drive from Pete Morris, and the Paragon guys and in class 2 from the same drivers who finished 2nd and third last season.
Stuart gave us a great double win in a different class, John McCullagh in his first race in our 2013 class winning Boxster S was not far behind the leading class 1 drivers (all of whom except Tom had driven their cars last season and/or the season before - being familiar with them and having had a long time to develop them) and finished despite a stone having punctured a radiator and the temperature soaring as the race went on and Tom managed to bring our development 996 home first in race 1 from a double pole (a position he shared with Stuart in class 2) after completing 2 full race length tests on the Friday (to assess tyre wear and fuel consumption)and race.
The new suspension idea seems to be working reasonably well and it will be interesting when we review the Video showing the damper movements linked to the car position and "G" forces - to work out exactly what each corner of the car is doing under braking and cornering and see how close we managed to set the car up (although it is unlikely to be right first time and it must be possible to improve it further as the season progresses - something it looks like we need to do to keep in front of Pete).
It looked like a perfect weekend for us until something made the 996 shut down on the warm up lap for race 2. The video shows it just slowly losing power while under no strain or revs - as if the fuel had stopped flowing - it is going to be a busy week finding out what the fault is and fixing it in time for next weekend at Croft together with the radiator etc - but that is racing and we are well pleased with our results.
It is not going to be easy for anyone this season and I hope that close exciting racing results - that the TV exposure will demonstrate - to help promote the series in the eyes of the public and help Porsche Club Racing to go on to bigger and better things in the future and the grids to expand in the process.
Baz
Yes - all standard ratios (the S cars checked by the Club last season as well during power testing).
Actually the gear profiles are cut with a gear cutting tool that is non standard and so it would be prohibitively expensive for anyone to fiddle with the ratios unless they made a whole new gearbox internal set and then the main shaft has gears machined on to it and it is one of those things that in small quantities would be much too expensive to justify.
The 2.7 is of course 5 speed while the 3.2's are 6 speed.
The rev counter set on the screen is not necessarily accurate at the lower end of the scale anyway - more a guide than an accurate read out - perhaps this is confusing you?
Baz
Actually the gear profiles are cut with a gear cutting tool that is non standard and so it would be prohibitively expensive for anyone to fiddle with the ratios unless they made a whole new gearbox internal set and then the main shaft has gears machined on to it and it is one of those things that in small quantities would be much too expensive to justify.
The 2.7 is of course 5 speed while the 3.2's are 6 speed.
The rev counter set on the screen is not necessarily accurate at the lower end of the scale anyway - more a guide than an accurate read out - perhaps this is confusing you?
Baz
hartech said:
Yes - all standard ratios (the S cars checked by the Club last season as well during power testing).
Actually the gear profiles are cut with a gear cutting tool that is non standard and so it would be prohibitively expensive for anyone to fiddle with the ratios unless they made a whole new gearbox internal set and then the main shaft has gears machined on to it and it is one of those things that in small quantities would be much too expensive to justify.
The 2.7 is of course 5 speed while the 3.2's are 6 speed.
The rev counter set on the screen is not necessarily accurate at the lower end of the scale anyway - more a guide than an accurate read out - perhaps this is confusing you?
Baz
Maybe...Actually the gear profiles are cut with a gear cutting tool that is non standard and so it would be prohibitively expensive for anyone to fiddle with the ratios unless they made a whole new gearbox internal set and then the main shaft has gears machined on to it and it is one of those things that in small quantities would be much too expensive to justify.
The 2.7 is of course 5 speed while the 3.2's are 6 speed.
The rev counter set on the screen is not necessarily accurate at the lower end of the scale anyway - more a guide than an accurate read out - perhaps this is confusing you?
Baz
I had a Boxster S in 2000, and I always remember the gearing feeling too long for the car.
These track cars will no doubt be much lighter now so could be the difference.
G.
Boxster S had the same gearbox as the 996 that is why the gears feel far to long. 2.7 also always looked a bit long geared to me but a great mod ahem cheat would be to use a 2.5 box as the overall ratio is lower than a 2.7. Final ratios in the 2.5 are similar to my 944 S2 i.e. 2nd is about 60, 3rd about 85-90, 4th about 118 and 5th would take the car past 150 if it had enough power.
I can add a bit of context here having been on track with both Stuart and last years winner Tom. Its hard for those from the outside to understand but one very big advantage the boxsters have over the older cars is vastly better ability to brake late and carry speed on turn in, especially compared to the front engined cars. Just watch Stuarts videos and pay attention to the speed he is carrying on turn in to Druids for example. This makes it very easy unfortunately for either party to get caught out in the corner entry phase.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff