Low miles and servicing.

[Xpuffin]

If you arn't doing many miles (<1000pa) is the major minor major minor annual schedule correct.
Reading the service book it alludes to a yearly check but fails to identify what that is.
Been a little busy so not using the 2 much, only 900 miles since the last major 2 years ago and the OPC is stating a major plus brake fluid change.
Surely thats overkill, I don't mind if its necessary but personally I don't think it is.
Anyone else experienced this?

[sleep envy]

If the last service was a major wouldn't the next be a minor?

I don't bother with the yearly inspections as I too do very few miles due to circumstance.

[Xpuffin]

The cars 02 reg so yearly service. Last year was a minor, only done 300 miles since.

[Pugley]

You have to use your common sense!

If you want to sell the car for its absolute maximum price there will always be someone who insists that the service schedule should have a stamp for every time period regardless of mileage. Its part of the "perfect pedigree" that accompanies highly collectable cars. If its an older Boxter or 996/997 the price will fall to market level regardless. Whether you recoup the additional cost above and beyond mileage based service is debatable? If its more exotic/collectable then there will be a chance of finding a buyer who will pay top money for the right history.

As the years go by, the condition becomes more important than the service history as stamps in the book don't actually mean the vehicle is perfect or even in good condition.

If the car is in a dry garage and the oil is crystal clear after 300 miles, putting new oil in is unlikely to make any difference to the actual condition of the engine. Brake fluid is hydroscopic and will absorb water so some care should be taken over time periods and what environment it is stored in. If the car is out in the open a years weathering will probably be far more injurious to its value and condition than a few hundred miles of use.

Edited by Pugley on Sunday 11th May 11:44

[Pope]

Most of the consumable items on the model specified have a 'life' attached - brake and clutch fluid 2yrs as previously mentioned; Spark Plugs were 24k/2yrs but then went 36k/3yrs and then to 48k/4yrs - some, no later than 6yrs. Drivebelt again has a maximum lifetime. Any car is designed to be used; lack of use can be as bad as misuse in some circumstances. Don't leave a car outside for months at a time and expect it to be 'good to go' when you decide.

A 12k/minor service is little more than an oil change and a thorough inspection - an opportunity to highlight or catch any issues before they become a future breakdown. Porsche's are designed as a performance car; and in my opinion what is the point of having it if you don't want to look after it.

Maintaining tip top condition ensuring insofar as is possible that you can exploit the car to its potential when you want to is a far better approach than driving around problems or waiting until something goes wrong 'because I only use it occasionally'

[thegoose]

The rubber bits I get, but I struggle to see how spark plugs deteriorate to any discernible degree over 4 years of very low mileage (provided the car's run up to temp and given a decent drive say 4 times a year, which could still be under 200miles/year)?

[Xpuffin]

Ok I'll rephrase the question.
When is a yearly inspection the correct option, and what does it consist of.
If it wasn't a suitable choice Porsche wouldn't offer it.
FWIW the cars in a warm dry garage and wants for nothing it needs, I just don't see the point in spending money without determining its necessary.

[m33ufo]

Xpuffin said:

When is a yearly inspection the correct option, and what does it consist of.

Probably the quickest and most simple way to find out is to ring your local OPC service department. Post the answer because I for one would also like to know?

[thegoose]

m33ufo said:

Xpuffin said:

When is a yearly inspection the correct option, and what does it consist of.

Probably the quickest and most simple way to find out is to ring your local OPC service department. Post the answer because I for one would also like to know?

It's little different to an MOT (less thorough in some respects) but by a technician that knows the cars well and can only be done once in the course of 2 years because the oil is supposed to be changed after a maximum of 2 years. So you could go service-inspection-service-inspection etc year by year.

[Xpuffin]

Got the call back today. As I queried the need for a major on Friday.(OPC Reading)
Yearly is a 1 hour bookable inspection (£90.00)
Have asked them to do brake fluid and belt change too.
Next service can be either another yearly, major or minor depending on mileage apparently.
This would be enough to retain a warranty.

[thegoose]

Xpuffin said:

Got the call back today. As I queried the need for a major on Friday.(OPC Reading)
Yearly is a 1 hour bookable inspection (£90.00)
Have asked them to do brake fluid and belt change too.
Next service can be either another yearly, major or minor depending on mileage apparently.
This would be enough to retain a warranty.

That sounds like it's ok to have the oil in for 3 years or more, which is surprising.

[Xpuffin]

thegoose said:

That sounds like it's ok to have the oil in for 3 years or more, which is surprising.

Just bought a 5 year old car with 37 miles on the clock, I oversaw its recomission. The oils were replaced but were fine so I guess its really down to what Porsche say that goes. Given the change in the yearly to 2 yearly interval within a model range I'd be asking why every time.
It's certainly saved me wasting £650.00 on their recommendation.
Which is why the Turbo goes to an Indie.

[Legacywr]

thegoose said:

That sounds like it's ok to have the oil in for 3 years or more, which is surprising.

Someone on here told me that the engine oil can absorb water, and, needs changing even if the car hasn't been used!?

[Rockster]

Legacywr said:

Someone on here told me that the engine oil can absorb water, and, needs changing even if the car hasn't been used!?

Water can get into engine oil one of two ways. The first and by far the way that is the biggest concern is from combustion. Water vapor is produced in the combustion chamber and at cold start and for a while after start cold engine parts cause some water to condense and this can make its way into the oil past the rings. Or the water vapor gets into the crankcase as blow-by at all times. There is always some blow-by.

There is another way if the car sits unused. If there is any temperature change -- and there can be unless the car is stored in a temperature controlled room -- some of the air inside the crankcase can be expelled and replaced with outside air. We are not talking about air exchange that one can feel as a draft but nevertheless air will be exchanged. As the vehicle heats up this heat makes is way in and the engine, at least some of the areas of the engine, warm up and the air inside the crankcase expands and is forced out. Then as the air outside cools down and this works to cool down the car and the engine what outside air that was pulled back into the engine as the temperature dropped and the pressure dropped is now in the engine and can give up some of its moisture as condensation.

We have seen condensation of water in the crankcase, the evidence is gunk that collects at the oil filler tube opening. The only difference is the water droplets get mixed with oil vapor and that accounts for the off white color of the gunk. With the engine off the water just runs down into the lowest parts of the engine, primarily into the oil sump where it makes its way eventually to the bottom under the oil.

This water has not been mixed with the oil and thus given a chance to absorb a lot of the other combustion byproducts to form acid. However, as it makes its way through the oil it will absorb whatever combustion byproducts it comes into contact with and by the time the water is through moving down it will be acidic to some extent.

Whether this water/acid is in contact with anything that it can harm is open for discussion.

But another worry is upon engine start this layer of water, however it came to be there, being at the bottom is most likely what the oil pump will pull in through the oil intake tube. Thus the initial slug of oil that is routed through the engine's oil passages can contain a high percentage of water. This can result in accelerated wear/tear at the various rotating, sliding interfaces in the engine as these are exposed to sub-par lubrication.

I really can't imagine owning a car like a modern Porsche and only driving it on average a few hundred or even a few thousand miles per year. I would hope that were I only using the car that much I'd give it the frequency of service that would reduce the possibility of any negatives from this lack of usage.

First on my list would be to change the oil/filter once a year, probably before entering the time of the year when the car would get used less so the oil would start out with as little water and other combustion byproducts as possible.

I'd certainly have the brake and if a manual car the clutch fluid flushed/bled every 2 years. Next I'd have the coolant changed -- no need to flush -- every 3 to 4 years. Even though the engine is not being run the anti-freeze is having to fight corrosion that wants to attack the water pump seals, any seals/gaskets that coolant is in contact with, and the metal in the radiators, oil/water heat exchanger, the cabin heater core. This corrosion is happening 24/7/365 regardless if the engine is running or not.

Next I'd have the plugs changed on time. The concern is combustion gases are force into the tiny gap between the threads of the head and spark plug. These gases contain moisture and acid compounds. This works to corrode the plug and head threads and if left to go on too long can have the head threads damaged -- they are aluminum after all and this is a softer metal than that of the plug threads.

The above servicing reduces the "damage" from lack of sufficient regular use but can't eliminate it. For instance, while there is fresh oil in the engine the condensation takes place. If this water condenses on a valve spring, over time a rust spot can form which can then lead to premature failure of the spring. Or corrosion sets up at the cam lobe/lifter bucket interface and when the engine is run this spot of corrosion results in accelerated wear which can have a depression worn in the bucket face or a cam lobe flattened. Or a chain link develops a spot of rust and these leads to at some point a chain breaking.

While there is fresh oil in the engine it is not circulated so all seals that are exposed to oil normally while the engine is running are of course not exposed to any oil. They will tend to dry out and shrink. Oil leaks, like at the RMS, are more likely.

There is more: The valve guide seals shrink and these let more oil past and the engine consumes more oil than it would have if the valve seals were not allowed to shrink.

Or the chain tensioner seals shrink and the chain tensioners are no longer able to maintain the proper tension. This may not make itself known right away but over time the looser chain causes the chain guide cover plate to fail (it is a hard/tough composite plastic but it can only take so much abuse that is in the form of chain slap) and this can result in a chain jumping/skipping a tooth (or more) and a cam getting out of time. If this is severe enough it can cause valve heads to contact pistons which is the kiss of death to the engine.

Really though the solution is to use the car more. Porsche like every other car maker strives to produce cars that run a long time and deliver a good service experience for thousands, hundreds of thousands of miles if given half a chance.

All of its servicing guidelines are geared towards this goal of delivering a long and uneventful (as possible) service life. They are not geared towards the owner that essentially wants to store the car most of the time with some usage coming between long periods of no use.

Last but not least if the car isn't seen often enough this can result in the body corrosion warranty be invalidated. Read the warranty fine print, the body corrosion warranty section.

[Xpuffin]

Just got back from OPC Reading.
The agreed service schedule will be minor every 2 years, yearly in between and plugs every 4 years ( I suggested a major rather than a minor at that time)