Wheel allignment/camber adjustment - 997 S2
Discussion
I have just reshod the rear of my 911. The tyres were pretty well worn but one showed signs of inner wear - which triggered the swap. Cue a pair of new Michelins.
I obviously want to make sure the alignment and camber is correct - and my local tyre shop (ATS) said they could do it for me.
Today I rang my local Porsche specialist (not main dealer) for a price and was told - about 3 hours and 270 quid (plus VAT).
I don't need a special setup, just regular road use (which usually accommodates some enthusiastic driving)but no track stuff.
What's a boy to do? The guy (manager) at the tyre shop have been very helpful and seem quite knowledgeable. I wouldn't go there for brakes etc. but alignment is all by numbers - Isn't it?
What else would I get from the specialist other than a nice cup of coffee?
TIA
EliF
I obviously want to make sure the alignment and camber is correct - and my local tyre shop (ATS) said they could do it for me.
Today I rang my local Porsche specialist (not main dealer) for a price and was told - about 3 hours and 270 quid (plus VAT).
I don't need a special setup, just regular road use (which usually accommodates some enthusiastic driving)but no track stuff.
What's a boy to do? The guy (manager) at the tyre shop have been very helpful and seem quite knowledgeable. I wouldn't go there for brakes etc. but alignment is all by numbers - Isn't it?
What else would I get from the specialist other than a nice cup of coffee?
TIA
EliF
You might want to try Kwik-Fit. They are rolling out Hunter Alignnment machines to most of their centres.
These state of the art pieces of kit are employed by OEMs to do the original alignment at the factories.
The check and initial adjustment is less than £50 and if you need additional adjustments then it is a small extra charge per adjustment.
One of the Porsche main dealers in Scotland brought all his vehicles into Kwik-Fit whilst his workshop was being refurbed. He charged his customers full whack so made a tidy profit on each vehicle!
Not all Kwik-Fit centres have the Hunter yet but if you let me know whereabouts in Surrey you are I can find out if there is a centre with Hunter near you. There are over 400 nationally so there should be one close by.
These state of the art pieces of kit are employed by OEMs to do the original alignment at the factories.
The check and initial adjustment is less than £50 and if you need additional adjustments then it is a small extra charge per adjustment.
One of the Porsche main dealers in Scotland brought all his vehicles into Kwik-Fit whilst his workshop was being refurbed. He charged his customers full whack so made a tidy profit on each vehicle!
Not all Kwik-Fit centres have the Hunter yet but if you let me know whereabouts in Surrey you are I can find out if there is a centre with Hunter near you. There are over 400 nationally so there should be one close by.
I had a well respected outfit in Norwich do a full geo alignment on my 996 turbo. They were recommended by my indie. They charged me £70 and did a very good job of putting it back to factory settings. The car still didn't handle as I expected.
After taking it to Chris Franklin at Center Gravity we discovered that the bushes on the coffin arms were completely shot and several other bits needed to be replaced. I am not saying you need to take it to Chris (although I think he is very good at what he does). Moral of the story is there's no point in having a geo done if the suspension is not up to spec. Waste of time and money.
Take it to a Porsche specialist who has got a Hunter machine and knows what they are doing with suspension setup and can make an assessment of your car first.
After taking it to Chris Franklin at Center Gravity we discovered that the bushes on the coffin arms were completely shot and several other bits needed to be replaced. I am not saying you need to take it to Chris (although I think he is very good at what he does). Moral of the story is there's no point in having a geo done if the suspension is not up to spec. Waste of time and money.
Take it to a Porsche specialist who has got a Hunter machine and knows what they are doing with suspension setup and can make an assessment of your car first.
a1butch said:
They have at least identified potential red flags that my local Inde can access and fix if necessary.
I'm going to phone my local Halfords, £50 is hard to ignore.
You are taking a gen 2 997 to Halfords?I'm going to phone my local Halfords, £50 is hard to ignore.
Perhaps they could fit you some sub woofers, flashy stereo and some blue sidelight bulbs aswell....
EliF said:
I have just reshod the rear of my 911. The tyres were pretty well worn but one showed signs of inner wear - which triggered the swap. Cue a pair of new Michelins.
I obviously want to make sure the alignment and camber is correct - and my local tyre shop (ATS) said they could do it for me.
Today I rang my local Porsche specialist (not main dealer) for a price and was told - about 3 hours and 270 quid (plus VAT).
I don't need a special setup, just regular road use (which usually accommodates some enthusiastic driving)but no track stuff.
What's a boy to do? The guy (manager) at the tyre shop have been very helpful and seem quite knowledgeable. I wouldn't go there for brakes etc. but alignment is all by numbers - Isn't it?
What else would I get from the specialist other than a nice cup of coffee?
TIA
EliF
I run a rally team (competing in WRC and ERC), and we do full geometry and alignment on each car before every rally and test. To attach the equipment onto each wheel and take an initial reading takes around 15 mins, but then to make any adjustment, and the get all 4 wheels correctly aligned can take several hours. Its a very iterative process, so when you adjust toe on one axle, it can throw out the camber and castor, so you can go round in circles making small adjustments until you get everything correct. While making any adjustment, you also get a good opportunity to make sure all the steering and suspension components are in good condition. Its a job that requires skill and patience, and the alignment equipment is very expensive, so the £300 quoted for a full alignment is great value. A properly setup car drives infinitely better than one that isn't set up properly.I obviously want to make sure the alignment and camber is correct - and my local tyre shop (ATS) said they could do it for me.
Today I rang my local Porsche specialist (not main dealer) for a price and was told - about 3 hours and 270 quid (plus VAT).
I don't need a special setup, just regular road use (which usually accommodates some enthusiastic driving)but no track stuff.
What's a boy to do? The guy (manager) at the tyre shop have been very helpful and seem quite knowledgeable. I wouldn't go there for brakes etc. but alignment is all by numbers - Isn't it?
What else would I get from the specialist other than a nice cup of coffee?
TIA
EliF
As for the poster that wants to take his 997 down to Halfords for a £50 alignment check....no comment...!
you can get great geos done for less than £100
you set it all up 1st and than do the caster 1st, most cars cannot ajust caster any way or its shimmed, so you then only need to do camber and toe, can be done easy in a two hour slot so £325 is bloody expensive and NOT great value at all imo.
Hunter makes life even more easy as the set up is much faster with this kit.
Garage rates cost from £35 a hour to £125 a hour, and if some who knows what they are doing cannot do that in under two hours they want the sack.
try the ttshop they will do you a geo for £70 on a hunter with a skilled operator.
http://www.thettshop.com/4_wheel_laser_alignment.a...
Northamton motor sport also very good value and use Hunter
used both a few times with no issues and perfect setups.
£325 I would want it corner weighting for that amount as well.
you set it all up 1st and than do the caster 1st, most cars cannot ajust caster any way or its shimmed, so you then only need to do camber and toe, can be done easy in a two hour slot so £325 is bloody expensive and NOT great value at all imo.
Hunter makes life even more easy as the set up is much faster with this kit.
Garage rates cost from £35 a hour to £125 a hour, and if some who knows what they are doing cannot do that in under two hours they want the sack.
try the ttshop they will do you a geo for £70 on a hunter with a skilled operator.
http://www.thettshop.com/4_wheel_laser_alignment.a...
Northamton motor sport also very good value and use Hunter
used both a few times with no issues and perfect setups.
£325 I would want it corner weighting for that amount as well.
Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 4th June 21:34
I agree with others....don t let the muppet 'chains' anywhere near your car....they MAY claim to have the latest equipment and the 'lights' may be on...but theres certainly usually nobody at home. Remember the end result is only as good as the chap with the spanner.....
If you are a reasonably agressive A road driver, no track, the car needs setting up to reflect this and your driving style. Seem to recollect the 997 runs a manuf minimum minus 1.15 negative rear camber so consider a setting nearer to this rather than the max of 1.45.....this will also tend to 'preserve' your inner tyre edges but bear in mind other adjustments will also have an influence as will running the tyres too soft which will increase wear.
I would find a good indie who knows his stuff, talk to them and see if they have the expertise to set your car up personally for you, and crucially knows 911s which drive like dogs if they are not properly aligned...plenty of info on previous threads re this if you look.....
If you are a reasonably agressive A road driver, no track, the car needs setting up to reflect this and your driving style. Seem to recollect the 997 runs a manuf minimum minus 1.15 negative rear camber so consider a setting nearer to this rather than the max of 1.45.....this will also tend to 'preserve' your inner tyre edges but bear in mind other adjustments will also have an influence as will running the tyres too soft which will increase wear.
I would find a good indie who knows his stuff, talk to them and see if they have the expertise to set your car up personally for you, and crucially knows 911s which drive like dogs if they are not properly aligned...plenty of info on previous threads re this if you look.....
mrdemon said:
you can get great geos done for less than £100
you set it all up 1st and than do the caster 1st, most cars cannot ajust caster any way or its shimmed, so you then only need to do camber and toe, can be done easy in a two hour slot so £325 is bloody expensive and NOT great value at all imo.
Hunter makes life even more easy as the set up is much faster with this kit.
Garage rates cost from £35 a hour to £125 a hour, and if some who knows what they are doing cannot do that in under two hours they want the sack.
try the ttshop they will do you a geo for £70 on a hunter with a skilled operator.
http://www.thettshop.com/4_wheel_laser_alignment.a...
Northamton motor sport also very good value and use Hunter
used both a few times with no issues and perfect setups.
£325 I would want it corner weighting for that amount as well.
Owners trying to economise on performance car ownership amuses me. The TT shop may do decent alignment on a TT, but are they experienced with the intricacies of 911 suspension..? I doubt it. I'd only recommend a Porsche main dealer, or reputable specialist for this kind of work.you set it all up 1st and than do the caster 1st, most cars cannot ajust caster any way or its shimmed, so you then only need to do camber and toe, can be done easy in a two hour slot so £325 is bloody expensive and NOT great value at all imo.
Hunter makes life even more easy as the set up is much faster with this kit.
Garage rates cost from £35 a hour to £125 a hour, and if some who knows what they are doing cannot do that in under two hours they want the sack.
try the ttshop they will do you a geo for £70 on a hunter with a skilled operator.
http://www.thettshop.com/4_wheel_laser_alignment.a...
Northamton motor sport also very good value and use Hunter
used both a few times with no issues and perfect setups.
£325 I would want it corner weighting for that amount as well.
Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 4th June 21:34
Anyone who wants to corner weigh and 4 wheel align a car for £325 is not going to do it properly.
mrdemon said:
you can get great geos done for less than £100.
try the ttshop they will do you a geo for £70 on a hunter with a skilled operator.
http://www.thettshop.com/4_wheel_laser_alignment.a...
If I'm reading there web site correctly that is a front axle alignment only. Wheel alignment should start from the rear and any adjustment done there fist. I doubt that it would end up at just £70 for a full four wheel alignment. try the ttshop they will do you a geo for £70 on a hunter with a skilled operator.
http://www.thettshop.com/4_wheel_laser_alignment.a...
Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 4th June 21:34
IREvans said:
Owners trying to economise on performance car ownership amuses me. The TT shop may do decent alignment on a TT, but are they experienced with the intricacies of 911 suspension..? I doubt it. I'd only recommend a Porsche main dealer, or reputable specialist for this kind of work.
Anyone who wants to corner weigh and 4 wheel align a car for £325 is not going to do it properly.
NO one is economising, people inc me just don't like to be ripped off because they are told doing a geo is like some magic formula and a 911 is some thing new to the world !!! what utter bullsAnyone who wants to corner weigh and 4 wheel align a car for £325 is not going to do it properly.
t.AS for a Porsche main dealer, you are now making me lol they have never done nothing but check OEM settings.
but when I asked my OPC to do my GEO it was only £120 and they did it to my spec, but the guy did not know much at all.
if you cannot ajust some top mounts and some camber bolts in 2 hours you want shooting imo. not many cars have adjustable caster or adjustable LCA as standard so that really is all the guy is doing.
yes doing a GT3 I would expect to pay more than £100 as there are many ajustemts. but a standard road car like the OP's, I stand by 2 hours max by a skilled guy.
mrdemon said:
I had mine done there with bespoke setting for £70 and it should have been £99
it is for all 4 wheels.
Ok its just their web site is poor then as this is what it said it is for all 4 wheels.
"4 Wheel Laser Alignment - £69.99
This includes all adjustable front end settings to within manufacturers range"
a1butch said:
mollytherocker said:
You are taking a gen 2 997 to Halfords?
Perhaps they could fit you some sub woofers, flashy stereo and some blue sidelight bulbs aswell....
Slight typo, I mean Kwik-Fit :-) Not sure where I plucked Halfords from.Perhaps they could fit you some sub woofers, flashy stereo and some blue sidelight bulbs aswell....
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