993 C2 Cab or 997.1 GT3 for track tuition day?

[Mario149]

I've booked in for a full day's instruction at Bedford next Sat and I'm trying to decide which car to take. I've done probably 10 or so track days before in various forms in things like a 996, 993, F355, 550 and Clio 172, but this is the first time I'm going the whole hog and having an instructor.

At first the answer might seem quite obvious but, in favour of each....

993:
She's on Cup 2s with adjustable PSS10s (set up by quite aggressively by Center Gravity) which I can dial right up for track work and a strut brace, so while she's never going to be a 993RS, she has plenty capability for my skill levels. Also, being less powerful and "hardcore" I have the idea that I might learn more as a result of having to work a bit harder as well as having more of a giggle without having to go eleventy hundred miles an hour. Another issue is that I've spent quite a lot of money on the car making so that I can take it to a track and play with suspension (didn't get a chance to this year) so I feel I should as otherwise I'll prob have to wait until next year.

GT3:
Obviously designed as the perfect car to drive to a track day in, rag round, and come home. And if I'm going to have an instructor, I might as well go the whole hog and use Porsche's "weapon of choice". Also, while the 993 has been fabulously reliable in the 18 months and 20-odd k miles I've had her (now on nearly 130k), she's probably not the most obvious car to beat round a track for a whole day and expect to come out fine at the end for the drive home, whereas the GT3 should be rock solid touch wood. Finally, as I've mentioned on here in the past, the GT3 really is too fast for the road, so it would be an opportunity to really see what she can do without having to wait another 6 months or so.

Decisions decisions.

Thoughts?


(Gratuitous pic of the sisters...)

[N24]

I'd do what F1 drivers do & rent a Nissan saloon car - you want to learn about brake-points & carrying speed - this will allow that, and these skills will transfer to both your C2 & GT3.

[Mario149]

All good points I don't particularly have a problem with going eleventy hundred miles an hour on track, it's just if I'm going to cock up a corner and spin etc because I'm pushing my skill boundaries, all other things being equal I'd rather do it going slightly slower I've got an instructor for the whole day so I suppose it should be fine - when I'm at Bedford (and anywhere else for that matter) I'm always fairly conservative as there always seem to be a lot of people with more guts than talent around me!

[Nurburgsingh]

The skills you will learn in making the 993 go quickly will transfer better to the GT3 than the other way round. IMO.

[Orangecurry]

If you want to go fast and shout 'look at meeeee' take the GT3.

If you want to learn about your car and how better to deal with situations when you lose control, take the 993.

[braddo]

Orangecurry said:

If you want to go fast and shout 'look at meeeee' take the GT3.

If you want to learn about your car and how better to deal with situations when you lose control, take the 993.

Regarding what I have highlighted in bold, I think that should be reserved for a specific car control/handling day (skid pans etc) and not a track day. The track day tuition should be focussed on staying inside the white lines and facing the right way!

It sounds like either car would do the job well but since you have a GT3, you should take the GT3.

[Orangecurry]

I don't disagree with what you say, but
a) it's just an airfield with cones, not a circuit, with an instructor sitting next to you, and
b) I said 'how better to deal with situations when you lose control' which is a better direction to approach these things, rather than 'learn how to control your car on the limit' which will not happen without huge amounts of natural talent and years of tuition and practice.

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Err, to take it on track, just not necessarily this time round It'll def go on track next spring, but realistically this is the only day I'll be doing for the rest of this year. Basically, one of them is going to have to wait 6 months, and I'm having trouble deciding which....first world problems and all that

[Mario149]

Nurburgsingh said:

The skills you will learn in making the 993 go quickly will transfer better to the GT3 than the other way round. IMO.

Yeah, that was partly what I was thinking when I wrote the OP.

Are there any people on here who have actually instructed on TDs etc who have an opinion?

[jonnyleroux]

Don't wish to poo-poo things - the GT3 is obviously the car to pick BUT is highly unlikely to pass the noise limits at Bedford i'm afraid :-(

Jonny
BaT

[boxsey]

+1 on Jonny's warning about noise issues. Which could be the same issue if you've got exhaust mods on the 993. Could be a very expensive day with very little track time.

[Mario149]

So an answer I got on PCGB from a guy with a 997.1 is that he had his on at Bedford, static test was fine, just had to lift off a little at a couple of points from the drive by limit.

To be on the safe side and maximise potential fun, I've decided to take both and have roped a mate into driving my 993 up for me

[Mario149]

Boooo....an instructor has dropped out at the last minute so I can't have tuition tomorrow Very annoying as I was reeeeally looking forward to it.

Silver lining though is that they've said I can have a full refund or reschedule the day for another time (I'll take the latter) but I can still come tomorrow anyway and have effectively a free extra regular day

[braddo]

Result!

Will you still take both cars or are you going to choose?

[Mario149]

braddo said:

Result!

Will you still take both cars or are you going to choose?

Still taking both, my mate's actually more keen now to help me drive them up as he'll get to passenger full time on track rather than having to wait while I go out on jollies with an instructor. Going to dig out the GoPro and suction mount in a bit

[Mario149]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Steve Rance]

Make sure that they have specific experience driving 911's, preferably at competition level, if they don't you will probably be wasting your time and work that you will have done will need to be undone later. These cars require a very specific driving technique and relatively few instructors have the correct experience. Also, in connection with which car to drive. The GT3 will respond much quicker to control inputs and therefore give you quicker notice of input error. Also, If in the unlikely - and unfortunate - event of you making an error and ending up upside down, you may be better served being strapped into the GT3.

[Steve Rance]

Yep agreed. I think if a driver is not that interested in extracting the most out of the car, then he should be fine. On saying that, you'd be amazed how many instructors don't know their way around a 911. Most drive them like they would a mid engined car and that is certainly not the way to drive one. not that they are bad instructors - even if you are very good you need wheel time in one to really work them out

Edited by Steve Rance on Friday 10th October 19:36

[Harris_I]

Steve Rance said:

Make sure that they have specific experience driving 911's, preferably at competition level, if they don't you will probably be wasting your time and work that you will have done will need to be undone later. These cars require a very specific driving technique and relatively few instructors have the correct experience.

+1. I was lucky enough to have briefly been instructed by somebody of Steve's calibre (it was the late Sean Edwards). If you really want to master the very particular behaviour of a 911, then choice of instructor is really important. If your objective at this stage is improving basic technique (smoothness of inputs, racing line etc), then it probably doesn't matter.

On the subject of 997.1 GT3, be aware if your skills have progressed to trail braking, then the standard PASM will work against the development of your skills.

[Mario149]

Just to clarify, I've done 2 days on track in my 993 already, one of which was at Bedford. This'll probably be my 7th time or so at Bedford overall so am reasonably familiar with it.

I'm going to try and get some last minute instructor time (as cmoose suggested) tomorrow, but otherwise, since my original grand plan of a day of proper instruction is out the window now, I'm not going to take it too seriously and just enjoy exploring a bit of the capability of the new car (GT3) and difference the new suspension has made on the old car (993)

Good points about the instructors though, when I reschedule my tuition day, I'll make a point to ask for an instructor who is 911-experienced