So I’ve been looking for a 964 or 993 for a few months….

[deadlast]

…and I thought I’d share some experiences having followed the classifieds very closely and viewed a few cars:


- “Prices are sky rocketing”…yes, but only for the very best examples which are largely original, low mileage and have a good history. These also seem to sell quickly unless the vendor is particuarly unrealistic.

- There are also cars that have been for sale for a very, very long time, as well as other cars which have been reduced and still haven’t sold (dealer and private).

- Asking prices and realistic selling prices are very different for unloved cars or undesirable specs (a number of examples just seem to languish in listings, then head to eBay - and then still sometimes go unsold).

- POA is a PITA (I think PH should make displaying the correct price in an advert mandatory)

- “SOLD – Similar required” Why not put an ad in the Wanted section? Why put an advert in front of buyers?

- A car isn’t “Stunning condition!” if I can put my fist through a rust hole (well worth the 2 hour drive)

- Be prepared to move quick and travel for the right car, I’ve missed a couple because of this at the start of my search

- Pistonheads classifieds: Being able to “bump” your old advert to the top as “newly listed” by opening and then saving it isn’t at all helpful from a buyers perspective.

- Why are seemingly all 993s blue? Why would someone choose a completely blue interior?

Just my experiences and thoughts (some obvious I guess!), the search continues for an good condition 964 Coupe or ideally Targa, or a 993 coupe or Cab with a solid service history….PM me if you’re thinking of selling (unless it has a blue interior )

[Lungauer]

I agree with all that, but I may have a 964 for sale if you're interested. Not blue either, inside or out.

[jackpe]

Good luck.. I bought my 964 around 3 years ago when they were only just starting to rise. Despite a lot of false hype prices are generally still on the rise, albeit for good examples as you mention. Many (mine included) have been modified to the owner's taste. As long as relatively sympathetic this is generally desirable for those in the know within the 964 community but less so for people just getting into the marque and looking for their first buy.

Generally manual Coupes are in most demand, with a premium for a C2. Next come Targas and Convertibles.

You'll have your own opinions but in my experience most people who hold on to these cars for any length of time end up making mods, such as lightweight fly wheels, RS interiors, sports exhausts, Bilstein suspension, RS Engine mounts.. and so on. These all improve the way the cars drive. So don't be scared by a non original car unless you're really just in it for the money.. in which case I hope values crash as soon as you've bought one

993s are generally more likely to be kept stock but the owners seems to be entirely different to the 964 lot. Valuing originality more.. possibly because 993's never went through the dip in values in the same way as 964s so end value was kept much more in mind by owners.

Edited by jackpe on Tuesday 11th November 14:00

[Koln-RS]

I've been following the 964/993 (and 3.2) market this year - 'window shopping' out of academic interest.

Clearly there seems to be big interest in the 'investment quality' end - Coupe/manual/low miles/full history/original spec/late model/perfect condition, etc,.......but, I think a lot of rubbish is 'hanging onto the coat tails' of the genuine stuff.

From what I can see - many cars are overpriced (dealers and private) and don't appear to be selling, and there's plenty of cr@p masquerading as quality.

Tips, Targas and Cabs aren't so popular, but there may well be good examples out there at fair prices.

The very best cars probably sell quickly and quietly without ever languishing in the classifieds.

[deadlast]

I agree with the above, I'm buying to drive - not to invest.

I'm registered with a lot of the known Indy dealers - we do have discussions about cars coming in before they're advertised, one was anticpated to be late 20's (probably about right for the condition and mileage) - then the owner who was trading in adjusted their expectations and decided they wanted mid thirties (why not - prices are sky rocketing!). He's still got it...

PS - Thanks for your PM Lungauer, I've replied...I need to save some more pennies.

[aceparts]

My view, if it's of any help is this. I purchased my 993 turbo some 11 years ago. Looked at a load of cars when the average mileage was around the 30K mark. There were many dogs among them. I purchased an PCGB secretary car, 36K miles, fpsh etc and just 7 years old. Within a year it had a rust issue around the screen and has cost in the region of £4-5K a year to keep perfect. My car now has 70+K miles and drives every bit as good as when it had only 36K miles, if not better.

So, as Henry says, buy on condition. They're all 18+ years old now.

[boxsey]

deadlast said:

I agree with the above, I'm buying to drive - not to invest.

I'm registered with a lot of the known Indy dealers - we do have discussions about cars coming in before they're advertised, one was anticpated to be late 20's (probably about right for the condition and mileage) - then the owner who was trading in adjusted their expectations and decided they wanted mid thirties (why not - prices are sky rocketing!). He's still got it...

The Indy dealers only have themselves to blame in this case. They're the ones that have been pushing up the market. I know of several examples over the last year where 964s have been put up for sale privately for sub £20K only for them to be snapped up by dealers within hours, washed and put up for sale at inflated prices.

[g7jhp]

boxsey said:

The Indy dealers only have themselves to blame in this case. They're the ones that have been pushing up the market. I know of several examples over the last year where 964s have been put up for sale privately for sub £20K only for them to be snapped up by dealers within hours, washed and put up for sale at inflated prices.

Agree. But you're not allowed to blame them!

[shoestring7]

I know the sages all suggest a C2 coupe is the only one worth considering, but don't rule out a good C4 of either model, they make very good road cars and with a few tweaks (the sort you'd do to refresh any tired car) can be made to handle was well as any C2. The '64 C4 has a 4wd system derived from the 959 and fantastic brakes, while the '93 one is simplified, but in either case they're extremely effective in poor conditions.

SS7

[Koln-RS]

If I was looking for a 964, I'd want a C2 Manual Coupe.

If I was looking for a 993, I'd want a C2 or a C4 Manual Coupe.

[Lungauer]

Koln-RS said:

If I was looking for a 964, I'd want a C2 Manual Coupe.

I agree with this, but then I would! Not wishing to hijack OP's thread, but it's interesting to see what people feel a 964 C2 manual should fetch before I advertise it.

[mollytherocker]

Lungauer said:

I agree with this, but then I would! Not wishing to hijack OP's thread, but it's interesting to see what people feel a 964 C2 manual should fetch before I advertise it.

5k for a basket case to 80k for ultra low mile minter.

[jonttt]

deadlast said:

- Why would someone choose a completely blue interior?

Blue interior is cool......




........ Well I might have added a bit of black ;-)

Edited by jonttt on Tuesday 11th November 23:54

[mollytherocker]

jonttt said:

Blue interior is cool......




........ Well I might have added a bit of black ;-)

Edited by jonttt on Tuesday 11th November 23:54

So why have you redone your seats in black and replaced the blue steering wheel?

[bigunit00]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Two nice manual c2 coupes at rpmtechnik at less than this and haven't sold. It does appear that once a 964 goes beyond £30k that's when they start to "stick" a tad. Under.....they seem to sell like hot cakes

[SidewaysSi]

bigunit00 said:

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Two nice manual c2 coupes at rpmtechnik at less than this and haven't sold. It does appear that once a 964 goes beyond £30k that's when they start to "stick" a tad. Under.....they seem to sell like hot cakes

Ageed. I have been keeping an eye on prices for a while and unless it is a low miler, very original car, £40k seems pretty high. Very good cars seem to have settled in the early 30s.

[boxsey]

shoestring7 said:

I know the sages all suggest a C2 coupe is the only one worth considering, but don't rule out a good C4 of either model, they make very good road cars and with a few tweaks (the sort you'd do to refresh any tired car) can be made to handle was well as any C2. The '64 C4 has a 4wd system derived from the 959 and fantastic brakes, while the '93 one is simplified, but in either case they're extremely effective in poor conditions.

SS7

Indeed. At our friendly 964 sprint day at Curborough on Saturday, where it was persisting down all day, the C4 runners were quicker than those of us in our C2s and RSs. However, that doesn't mean much in the context of this thread because good C4 coupes are fetching very similar prices to C2s and are just as difficult to get hold of.

[hot66]

I physically looked at 6, 964 C2's last month, all in the £30 - £40K price bracket and described by the traders as being really nice, immaculate etc ----- some were shocking, bad paint, rust bubbles on the scuttles , rear 1/4 panels etc . Some were OK, but not enough for me to buy. One was nice.

Also looked at 2 others via detailed photographs etc by email, both private sellers ---- both really nice cars and I was considering buying either of them ..... in both cases sellers decided they couldn't go through with the sale as what would they replace it with ?

It appears, there are very few nice 964 C2's out there these days, wether thats a legacy of them being so cheap for so long I don't know? The good ones are in long term ownership where the owners dont' 'need' to sell.

Can't see prices falling unless the whole market crashes really. There just arn't the cars out there. Us old Porsche fans might think £35K is expensive , but pop into any car new showroom and look at the prices for modern mass produced soul-less stuff !

£35K for a nice C2 coupe manual seems ballpark at the moment

Edited by hot66 on Wednesday 12th November 11:13

[deadlast]

Thanks to all for their thoughts, glad I'm not alone in my thinking. Spot on with anything over £30k seeming to stick on the market a little, I've also seen C4 cabs starting under £20k and then being reduced from there (and still not selling), the 964 C2 Targa at Phil Raby's has been reduced from the original £22k and is still there (looks ok, haven't viewed it though).

Thanks to those who have got in touch, seems I have a couple of very interesting leads to follow in the next few days!

(PS - Nobody with a blue interior got in touch...btw it's a couple of grand to get the blue interior sorted out at Southbound).

[deadlast]

I looked at a 964 C4 Targa at a dealer for £25k. It was sale or return for a client, was due a service (and the dealer and seller weren't prepared to do it), rust bubbles on the wings, lower doors and scuttle, fuel pump on the way out, rust hole the size of an orange in the engine bay......described as "Stunning Condition".

The private ones that I've been contacted about seem a cut above so far. I know dealers sometimes have good cars, but they do seem to be rare at the moment.

Cabs cheapest, then Targas (seemingly no difference in price for C2 or C4 for these), then the C4 Coupes and the C2 Coupes. For all the Tips seem a bit cheaper - I particuarly like one advert that stated someething along the lines of "with the desirable Tiptronic gearbox, capable of reaching 0-60 within 0.7 seconds of an expertly driven manual"