Dealer mis-sold car ... any comeback legal or other?
Discussion
ok so i just got into a 991 C2S Cab finally - LOVE the car, but didnt have the best experiance with the dealer (non OPC) - he sold me the car including BOSE, and I picked the car up in the dark late. After I had paid for it and driven half way home I noticed the surround sound settings were not on the PCM and guess what - it has no BOSE stereo as per advert. The dealer shall remain nameless at this point, I am asking them to compensate out of their margin by way of funding a sub woofer and speaker upgrade so I dont get too hammered on resale with No BOSE (more importantly I love my music and the std stereo is a bit sh!te to be honest!)
Do I have any comeback with trading standards or legally? I have copies of the advert from the web to prove it was advertised with BOSE and the spec of the car to show it doesnt... I'm hoping they come to the party and do the right thing as they messed up in my opinion, admittedly I should not have picked the car up late and not checked it thoroughly before paying the balance - but it was the only chance I had to pick it up within a reasonable time frame, I would be grateful for some advice?
Do I have any comeback with trading standards or legally? I have copies of the advert from the web to prove it was advertised with BOSE and the spec of the car to show it doesnt... I'm hoping they come to the party and do the right thing as they messed up in my opinion, admittedly I should not have picked the car up late and not checked it thoroughly before paying the balance - but it was the only chance I had to pick it up within a reasonable time frame, I would be grateful for some advice?
In my opinion the outcome of them funding the upgrade wont add any value - there is no official retrofit of BOSE; buying parts and installing them would be iro £4k (prohibitively expensive for them)and Porsche still would not recognise the car as having the spec. A non-genuine install would detract from the value come resale (Warranty implications).
If you had the spec before collection (not sure whether you did or not) I don't see any recourse?
If you had the spec before collection (not sure whether you did or not) I don't see any recourse?
Tricky one maybe.
On the one hand it seems the car wasn't supplied as advertised, so I'd have thought there should be some recourse.
On the other hand the BOSE speakers I thought were quite easy to spot inside the car, so having made a point of wanting BOSE I'm slightly surprised you didn't double check this.
I do understand that if you're in a hurry, bit of excitment etc, then maybe it was overlooked, so worth trying to get something off the price at least I guess.
On the one hand it seems the car wasn't supplied as advertised, so I'd have thought there should be some recourse.
On the other hand the BOSE speakers I thought were quite easy to spot inside the car, so having made a point of wanting BOSE I'm slightly surprised you didn't double check this.
I do understand that if you're in a hurry, bit of excitment etc, then maybe it was overlooked, so worth trying to get something off the price at least I guess.
Hi Pope - I had the spec (from their website) showing BOSE, therefore bought on that basis - I got the official spec from an OPC after I had bought it.
I agree the retro fit BOSE is prohibitive for both them and myself - wow £4k!
I would only upgrade tweeters and add subwoofer (plugged into the back of the PCM and powered directly from the fuse box, therefore could be easily removed on re sale, the main point is, whether is has BOSE or not is the first question when buying and selling my cars and I go from there, so do the dealers, the questions usually roll in the following sequence - does it have NAV? Bose? Upgraded Alloys, sports heated seats and sports chrono, sports exhaust... Seems to be the must have items? I chip money if they dont have the full list knowing I am going to have that disccusion when I come to sell it.
Without Bose it will surely detract from the resale value I have vs the ticket price they sold it to me at - therefoe they should compensate me, whether or not I choose to do the retro fit at least I will have some cash in my pocket to offset that?
I agree the retro fit BOSE is prohibitive for both them and myself - wow £4k!
I would only upgrade tweeters and add subwoofer (plugged into the back of the PCM and powered directly from the fuse box, therefore could be easily removed on re sale, the main point is, whether is has BOSE or not is the first question when buying and selling my cars and I go from there, so do the dealers, the questions usually roll in the following sequence - does it have NAV? Bose? Upgraded Alloys, sports heated seats and sports chrono, sports exhaust... Seems to be the must have items? I chip money if they dont have the full list knowing I am going to have that disccusion when I come to sell it.
Without Bose it will surely detract from the resale value I have vs the ticket price they sold it to me at - therefoe they should compensate me, whether or not I choose to do the retro fit at least I will have some cash in my pocket to offset that?
I agree - thats what I'm pushing for a refund for mis leading me. I agree they have really sorted out the sports exhaust on the 991 - back to the good old days of 997 gen 1 sound or better - sounds awesome. As I said i love the car - happy to turn off the stereo and listen to it roar for sure!!
Not sure what I'm missing here but.
If the sale included Bose, the car should either be fitted with Bose or the price adjusted to suit.
£963 seems to be the cost optioned at build...so I would be looking towards that amount.
Although as a used car, the price adjustment with or without, would be small. The lack of Bose may to some be a deal breaker, which is difficult to quantifiy financially.
If the sale included Bose, the car should either be fitted with Bose or the price adjusted to suit.
£963 seems to be the cost optioned at build...so I would be looking towards that amount.
Although as a used car, the price adjustment with or without, would be small. The lack of Bose may to some be a deal breaker, which is difficult to quantifiy financially.
bensimmons said:
Lanan - good call, thanks for the info around the cost of option, to clarify I want to keep the car not get a full refund - but Im pushing for a discount to off set against lack of BOSE. £963 x residual % = 66% would seem very fair to me - £635.
Wow!! You are very easy to deal with and the supplying dealer should snatch your hand off if you will be happy with £635. Getting the spec a little bit wrong on used cars advertised at OPC's or non-franchised dealers is very common (very, very!), and it's often the case that options aren't listed that the car actually has. I think you should have clearly identified the actual spec if it made that much difference to you - a call to your OPC would have given you all the info on the car that you needed. If you're into your music you're not going to be overly impressed with Bose and adding a non Porsche system would invalidate warranty. Personally I'd just enjoy the car.
The 991's exhaust sound is more audible because there's a channel which diverts sound into the cabin.
The 991's exhaust sound is more audible because there's a channel which diverts sound into the cabin.
turbo4ever said:
Legally no. Dealer would be covered by disclaimer. Goodwill - up to dealer. I guess your chances are good if the dealer wants to stay in business.
A disclaimer does not overwrite their obligation under Consumer Protection Regulations http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/co...
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bu...
This is a criminal offence and if it were me I would be pointing this out to the dealer. They should cave in quite quickly and whats a few hundred to avoid being prosecuted under a crimnal act.
Is the information given in a used car advertisement relevant when you're actually visiting the dealer, viewing the car and then making a buying decision? What if the car was advertised as having 10k miles but upon viewing it had 12k or if it was advertised with full leather but in fact had partial? You'd anticipate that this would have been noticed - surely this is for the purchaser to ascertain for himself before finalising the deal and driving away?
Is there any mention of Bose on your bill of sale? If there is then I'd guess you're covered.
Is there any mention of Bose on your bill of sale? If there is then I'd guess you're covered.
m33ufo said:
Is the information given in a used car advertisement relevant when you're actually visiting the dealer, viewing the car and then making a buying decision? What if the car was advertised as having 10k miles but upon viewing it had 12k or if it was advertised with full leather but in fact had partial? You'd anticipate that this would have been noticed - surely this is for the purchaser to ascertain for himself before finalising the deal and driving away?
Is there any mention of Bose on your bill of sale? If there is then I'd guess you're covered.
Even if it had Bose the dealers not going to put that on the bill of sale is he ? As far as i'm concerned if it was advertised with Bose then that's what the OP should get whether he noticed it or not when he picked the car up !Is there any mention of Bose on your bill of sale? If there is then I'd guess you're covered.
If you have a copy of the advertisement to which you are referring which identifies the car as having BOSE then I guess you should be covered. Just dragged this up:
"Dealers must also comply with the requirements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices across five main categories:
1. Giving false information either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
"Dealers must also comply with the requirements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices across five main categories:
1. Giving false information either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
I would go to the dealer, explain just how important the Bose upgrade is to you, that one reason you bought this car was that it was advertised as having the upgrade, and that you also know that not having this may or may not affect the resale value. I expect that they will do the right thing.
Legally, I suspect that it is less than clear cut for one simple reason, this is not something you ordered off the Internet, or came in a box that said contains a, b and c but actually was missing c, but a vehicle that you would normally be expected to inspect very thoroughly prior to actually deciding to purchase.
In effect although there was a mistake in the ad a court of law would need to consider just how much weight an average person would give to what was written in an ad compared to what this person would normally be expected to establish by other means prior to purchase. This weighting would very much depend on what was being purchased, and the manner.
A car, just like a property, would have far less importance attached to what is advertised compared to what can and normally would be inspected with ease.
Otherwise, London estate agents would have to describe most of their flats for sale as nothing less than "incredibly small, exceptionally poor value for money, in an area that is still a sh*thole and will likely be for at least a decade..."
Legally, I suspect that it is less than clear cut for one simple reason, this is not something you ordered off the Internet, or came in a box that said contains a, b and c but actually was missing c, but a vehicle that you would normally be expected to inspect very thoroughly prior to actually deciding to purchase.
In effect although there was a mistake in the ad a court of law would need to consider just how much weight an average person would give to what was written in an ad compared to what this person would normally be expected to establish by other means prior to purchase. This weighting would very much depend on what was being purchased, and the manner.
A car, just like a property, would have far less importance attached to what is advertised compared to what can and normally would be inspected with ease.
Otherwise, London estate agents would have to describe most of their flats for sale as nothing less than "incredibly small, exceptionally poor value for money, in an area that is still a sh*thole and will likely be for at least a decade..."
You should take the car back, unless you go the car cheap an after market upgrade is going to kill the value of the car because you can not put a OPC warranty on it.
I would avoid cars without bose as I like my music but I would not touch a car with a after market system in it. There are plenty of cars for sale just find another one.
I would avoid cars without bose as I like my music but I would not touch a car with a after market system in it. There are plenty of cars for sale just find another one.
m33ufo said:
If you have a copy of the advertisement to which you are referring which identifies the car as having BOSE then I guess you should be covered. Just dragged this up:
"Dealers must also comply with the requirements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices across five main categories:
1. Giving false information either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
Thanks m33ufo - some v useful info in your 2 posts, I think i might actually be covered by distance selling regulations as i bought it over the phone and paid the deposit and half the money on the phone - most of us on here have bought cars and know how difficult it is to get the finances in place/moving money around. I dont really want to return the car. rather come to an arrangement with the dealer - it was also the right spec - and to point out, there are not that many manual 991s around to be fair. I travel an aweful lot with work and spend lots of time out of the country and some of you must have a good contact in your local OPC if you think thats it as easy as just picking up the phone to ask for the Spec - I tried 3 different ones to identify the spec with cr@p (no) result!"Dealers must also comply with the requirements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices across five main categories:
1. Giving false information either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction."
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff