Bio fuel time bomb!
Discussion
993 and earlier Pork owners may want to read this
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhead...
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhead...
Magic919 said:
Maybe they read it three years ago when it was published. It's not really news is it? Effects on the fuel pipes in some of the older cars have been known for a while.
It may be that not all PHer's are as 'informed' as you are. Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 22 February 11:16
Ive run my cayman on e85, which has the same corrosive nature. You have to eliminate rubber fuel lines from the fuel system, have plastic lined ones. Fuel pumps that can run these fuels also.No bare aluminium and a few other changes. Makes 20% more power and is cheap in bulk. Still a load of hassle though!
Ive run my cayman on e85, which has the same corrosive nature. You have to eliminate rubber fuel lines from the fuel system, have plastic lined ones. Fuel pumps that can run these fuels also.No bare aluminium and a few other changes. Makes 20% more power and is cheap in bulk. Still a load of hassle though!
mollytherocker said:
ALL unleaded and super unleaded now has at least 5% ethanol content. You cant opt out anymore.
It would be useful to hear some details of any issues/failures that anyone has experienced.
Is there anything we can do with air cooled cars to combat the problem?
I've been using Lucas Ethanol fuel conditioner since I read about Ethanol being added to British fuel a few years ago. As has already been said, we are only up to 5% at the moment, but 10% is common place in mainland Europe. It would be useful to hear some details of any issues/failures that anyone has experienced.
Is there anything we can do with air cooled cars to combat the problem?
Trev450 said:
993 and earlier Pork owners may want to read this
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhead...
That was 2011 and yet to hear of many problems. Personally no issues running a 70 911s and an old Merc - nor any from owners I have met. But we may just be lucky.http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhead...
Magic919 said:
They have been saying Shell V Power is up to 5% ethanol for a while now.
I feared that. I wonder if mixing some MS109 in for the older cars might help? Perhaps someone more au fait with the older cars might chime in but I've heard that JZM reckon that a lot of the bore scoring issues on the newer 996 and 997,B/Cayman also caused by ethanol in fuel.mollytherocker said:
Magic919 said:
They have been saying Shell V Power is up to 5% ethanol for a while now.
ALL unleaded is now 5% ethanol.Pretty sure I've read that up to 5% ethanol causes few problems.
Just keep off the normal stuff I guess and away from most supermarket fuel.
BIG GT2 said:
Ive run my cayman on e85, which has the same corrosive nature. You have to eliminate rubber fuel lines from the fuel system, have plastic lined ones. Fuel pumps that can run these fuels also.No bare aluminium and a few other changes. Makes 20% more power and is cheap in bulk. Still a load of hassle though!
20% more power? How? Gasoline as 111,800 BTU's per unit of fuel compared to 81,700 for E85.You are right in saying the btu is higher in petrol. The e85 has around 30% less than petrol, it also has a stoic burn than requires at least 30% more to be injected than petrol. If you are converting to e85 for more power its more than just putting it in the tank. You need more than 30% more fuel so you have to uprate the pumps, fuel lines maybe injectors (I went from 1000cc to 1200cc) etc. So if you want to get more power but dont want to buy race fuel at £2/3/4 a litre then its great. im hoping for more power on my new engine as its roughly 101-113 octane depending on the mixture, but ive got someone who guarantees 110 plus. I also saw gains because of its great cooling properties, e85 has some cooling properties that are found in water/methanol injection which I used and this got us thinking about e85 in the first place. Its great for lowering intake temps and yes my turbo gains have been found by upping the boost and increasing the ignition timing but its thanks to this fuel that i can. I think its all positive, except like you said because the btu rating is lower you require 30% more than petrol. We are looking at cryogenics to lower the inlet temps more with a jacket around the boost pipes containing the liquid nitrogen. Id start a thread but nobody wants to read about that surely
Be careful you don't fall into the trap of thinking that if some's good more has to be better.
There can be too much cooling of the intake.
We who have experienced all kinds of weather can attest to the phenomenon of driving a vehicle in cool dry air. The engine seems to have something extra under these conditions.
But the benefit tapers off as temperatures get colder which brings to mind the possibility that at some point one has to be concerned that too cold an intake charge can quench the combustion of the mixture in the chamber.
If you go with liquid nitrogen without some kind of thermostat to limit how cold the intake is allowed to become my concern would with the risk of thermal shocking the hot intake or more likely the extremely hot exhaust valves and having one fracture.
There is also the risk of the intake cracking from the thermal gradients. The intake will have to be brought down to its ideal temperature at a rate that doesn't have the thing cracking. Any hoses in the intake will have to be able to remain pliable at the low temperatures.
There can be too much cooling of the intake.
We who have experienced all kinds of weather can attest to the phenomenon of driving a vehicle in cool dry air. The engine seems to have something extra under these conditions.
But the benefit tapers off as temperatures get colder which brings to mind the possibility that at some point one has to be concerned that too cold an intake charge can quench the combustion of the mixture in the chamber.
If you go with liquid nitrogen without some kind of thermostat to limit how cold the intake is allowed to become my concern would with the risk of thermal shocking the hot intake or more likely the extremely hot exhaust valves and having one fracture.
There is also the risk of the intake cracking from the thermal gradients. The intake will have to be brought down to its ideal temperature at a rate that doesn't have the thing cracking. Any hoses in the intake will have to be able to remain pliable at the low temperatures.
Rockster said:
Be careful you don't fall into the trap of thinking that if some's good more has to be better.
There can be too much cooling of the intake.
We who have experienced all kinds of weather can attest to the phenomenon of driving a vehicle in cool dry air. The engine seems to have something extra under these conditions.
But the benefit tapers off as temperatures get colder which brings to mind the possibility that at some point one has to be concerned that too cold an intake charge can quench the combustion of the mixture in the chamber.
If you go with liquid nitrogen without some kind of thermostat to limit how cold the intake is allowed to become my concern would with the risk of thermal shocking the hot intake or more likely the extremely hot exhaust valves and having one fracture.
There is also the risk of the intake cracking from the thermal gradients. The intake will have to be brought down to its ideal temperature at a rate that doesn't have the thing cracking. Any hoses in the intake will have to be able to remain pliable at the low temperatures.
Thanks thats food for thought on the liquid nitrogen thats why its good to talk to people and bounce ideas off each other. As yet i havent had the inlet temps to low on e85 to cause a problem. Think ill get the thing up and running again first. Just finishing the coolant pipes and waiting on our motec man. Regards MarkThere can be too much cooling of the intake.
We who have experienced all kinds of weather can attest to the phenomenon of driving a vehicle in cool dry air. The engine seems to have something extra under these conditions.
But the benefit tapers off as temperatures get colder which brings to mind the possibility that at some point one has to be concerned that too cold an intake charge can quench the combustion of the mixture in the chamber.
If you go with liquid nitrogen without some kind of thermostat to limit how cold the intake is allowed to become my concern would with the risk of thermal shocking the hot intake or more likely the extremely hot exhaust valves and having one fracture.
There is also the risk of the intake cracking from the thermal gradients. The intake will have to be brought down to its ideal temperature at a rate that doesn't have the thing cracking. Any hoses in the intake will have to be able to remain pliable at the low temperatures.
majordad said:
And here's Mark and hid Dad en route back from SPA refueling.
PS. Mark, I need a GRP Engine Lid for a 1972 T, I've asked Chris to contact ye.
Dave
I forgot you took that haha! If you email my dad he will sort it, or get chris to ring. Should be in stock at a guess. im not in today matePS. Mark, I need a GRP Engine Lid for a 1972 T, I've asked Chris to contact ye.
Dave
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