Should dealers be reducing prices for Porsches?
Discussion
We have seen some significant price rises in the last few years and given (specialist) dealers have a big say in market prices, is it time they should reduce these?
I can't see how ever increasing prices benefit anyone, owners or dealers alike. Whilst everyone rubs their collective cyber hands at how much their 4 wheels are worth, is it actually doing any good? The way I see it (and no doubt in a very simplistic manner):
1. Dealers lose out as less cars come to market given owners believe they are sitting on a valuable asset. Yes, they make more on each vehicle but with less vehicles, I would assume overall profits are hit.
2. Owners in many cases will not use them or at least limit their use, instead keeping them to either pass to the next generation who will do the same ad infinitum. Or they will sell up to fund their retirement.
Of course, the only way to make any money is to ride the price rise then sell and purchase something else but have you then lost out in the driving stakes?
3. Newer owners to the marque may lose out experiencing some (older) models.
Appreciate it is a supply/demand market, however if asking prices were seen to fall, demand from speculators would surely cool off as well and more owners would look to sell.
I can't see how ever increasing prices benefit anyone, owners or dealers alike. Whilst everyone rubs their collective cyber hands at how much their 4 wheels are worth, is it actually doing any good? The way I see it (and no doubt in a very simplistic manner):
1. Dealers lose out as less cars come to market given owners believe they are sitting on a valuable asset. Yes, they make more on each vehicle but with less vehicles, I would assume overall profits are hit.
2. Owners in many cases will not use them or at least limit their use, instead keeping them to either pass to the next generation who will do the same ad infinitum. Or they will sell up to fund their retirement.
Of course, the only way to make any money is to ride the price rise then sell and purchase something else but have you then lost out in the driving stakes?
3. Newer owners to the marque may lose out experiencing some (older) models.
Appreciate it is a supply/demand market, however if asking prices were seen to fall, demand from speculators would surely cool off as well and more owners would look to sell.
Some interesting points.
In my opinion I can't see how these crazy UK prices increases can be sustained.
As an example 991 gt3 in some parts of Europe and America are being advertised new for around 105k, but in Britain people are asking £160k. It just doesn't make sense and not a realistic difference in price for the same car.
Has the time come for the average uk buyer to consider looking further a field or does he weight for a possible correction in uk prices?
In my opinion I can't see how these crazy UK prices increases can be sustained.
As an example 991 gt3 in some parts of Europe and America are being advertised new for around 105k, but in Britain people are asking £160k. It just doesn't make sense and not a realistic difference in price for the same car.
Has the time come for the average uk buyer to consider looking further a field or does he weight for a possible correction in uk prices?
I think so. Also I think Porsche owners are losing out too. There is a thread running on how the 993 is increasing in price, however I bet a good proportion of those owners would love to try a GT3 or a GT3 RS etc but which are perhaps already out of reach. Works the same for most of us except those who have enough disposable to spend on whatever they want.
All well and good saying that "my car is going up in value" but in the grand scheme of things I think everyone is actually losing out, not least the dealers from a hard money point of view. JZM for instance have had a good number of high priced 911s on their site for what must be months now - surely they would have turned them over with lower prices?
All well and good saying that "my car is going up in value" but in the grand scheme of things I think everyone is actually losing out, not least the dealers from a hard money point of view. JZM for instance have had a good number of high priced 911s on their site for what must be months now - surely they would have turned them over with lower prices?
I find it difficult to see how 993 prices in particular can be sustained.
Owned several of them back in the 90’s and found them to be a wonderful car to drive. Full of character. But they were not without their problems. The squeaky windscreen and the constant rattling from the glovebox assembly drove many owners (and Porsche bodyshops) mad. My self included.
Wouldn’t want to go through that again at any price.
Porsche came up with several “fixes” (PTFE tape round the windscreen etc), but none of these seemed to provide a permanent answer. Time may have provided better solutions – don’t know.
It was around this time that Porsche decided that they really needed to tackle their quality control. Although some well documented problems occurred in subsequent manifestations of the 911, by and large, quality control improved progressively through the 996/997/991 model ranges to the point where it equals or betters almost anything else that is available today.
Older models may win on character, but they also have their problems!
Owned several of them back in the 90’s and found them to be a wonderful car to drive. Full of character. But they were not without their problems. The squeaky windscreen and the constant rattling from the glovebox assembly drove many owners (and Porsche bodyshops) mad. My self included.
Wouldn’t want to go through that again at any price.
Porsche came up with several “fixes” (PTFE tape round the windscreen etc), but none of these seemed to provide a permanent answer. Time may have provided better solutions – don’t know.
It was around this time that Porsche decided that they really needed to tackle their quality control. Although some well documented problems occurred in subsequent manifestations of the 911, by and large, quality control improved progressively through the 996/997/991 model ranges to the point where it equals or betters almost anything else that is available today.
Older models may win on character, but they also have their problems!
Vendors reducing prices by a few grand helps themselves in the longer term too though doesn't it? It will increase the numbers of cars they turn around. A couple of cars that they make say 10% on at £30k is better than one at £50k.
If owners do not sell due to ever increasing asking prices (of course many will buy at retail price and sell at trade), stock of cars, particulalrly air cooled will fall which doesn't help either owners, prospective owners and particulalrly dealers.
If owners do not sell due to ever increasing asking prices (of course many will buy at retail price and sell at trade), stock of cars, particulalrly air cooled will fall which doesn't help either owners, prospective owners and particulalrly dealers.
A cunning plan Baldric. WTF. Best not apply for chief economist any where.
Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
The market for cars like this evolves all the time. In the late 90's up to around 2003, prices for used Boxsters were nigh on the same as for new ones. 996 commanded big money. I remember seeing 2 and 3 year old 996 C4S make £40k plus at BCA.
The market evolved. Porsche aren't making any more air cooled cars. They look and sound special, they are rare on the road and good ones are few and far between. Loads of old cars from all sorts of Marques have soared in value. My dad has owned a 2.8 Capri for over 25 years. It's now insured for £15k. You can buy lots of newer, better cars for less but some older cars have become desirable.
Maybe tastes will change again. We could swiftly move to a place where legislation means you can't drive any old, non euro compliant cars in a town centre. If it becomes too difficult to use old cars maybe values will take a hit.
It really does seem to be about demand and supply. As said above getting good stock can't be easy for reputable dealers.
The market evolved. Porsche aren't making any more air cooled cars. They look and sound special, they are rare on the road and good ones are few and far between. Loads of old cars from all sorts of Marques have soared in value. My dad has owned a 2.8 Capri for over 25 years. It's now insured for £15k. You can buy lots of newer, better cars for less but some older cars have become desirable.
Maybe tastes will change again. We could swiftly move to a place where legislation means you can't drive any old, non euro compliant cars in a town centre. If it becomes too difficult to use old cars maybe values will take a hit.
It really does seem to be about demand and supply. As said above getting good stock can't be easy for reputable dealers.
All rather utopian sideways. You're questioning the fundamentals of the capitalist society in which we live. While its right to regulate the prices of some of life's essentials where you can (water, electricity etc), life's luxuries (like porsche) will never see that, nor should they.
I can think of many, many places where high prices benefit people. You are also making a major assumption (like others in other threads) that if you buy a car you have to use it as such. Its quite right that people can buy and speculate on the value of items, its part of what what makes an economy tick.
You'll never get any sympathy when you start saying luxury items have become too expensive for the masses ...
J
I can think of many, many places where high prices benefit people. You are also making a major assumption (like others in other threads) that if you buy a car you have to use it as such. Its quite right that people can buy and speculate on the value of items, its part of what what makes an economy tick.
You'll never get any sympathy when you start saying luxury items have become too expensive for the masses ...
J
IMIA said:
A cunning plan Baldric. WTF. Best not apply for chief economist any where.
Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
Well said - maybe there is a job for him Finance Minister in Greece!! Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
IMIA said:
A cunning plan Baldric. WTF. Best not apply for chief economist any where.
Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
Well said - maybe there is a job for him Finance Minister in Greece!! Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
FalconWood said:
IMIA said:
A cunning plan Baldric. WTF. Best not apply for chief economist any where.
Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
Well said - maybe there is a job for him Finance Minister in Greece!! Do you know how hard it is to find an original panel, genuine mileage air cooled in tip top condition? It's a free market. If they're selling prices will carry on going up. If not they'll start to decline. No go and face the wall lol....
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff