996 3.4 Engine becomes tappety after "spirited" drive.
Discussion
Hi,
Just looking for a bit of advice. After a bit of a spirited drive yesterday the engine began to make a reasonably loud ticking sound once i pulled up at a junction. It soon quietened down but every noise this car makes that could be abnormal worries me.
The engine oil is starting to look a little low (still within limits). I also notices that if i cornered sharply the oil pressure gauge dropped.
Could it be a bit of oil starvation due to the level getting low? Or do i need to worry?
I'm looking to track the car later this month but if it's likely to result in misery i might give it a miss until the car is 100%
Also, i'm still yet to find an independent specialist in the Sheffield area. Can anyone recommend one to me?
Cheers,
Just looking for a bit of advice. After a bit of a spirited drive yesterday the engine began to make a reasonably loud ticking sound once i pulled up at a junction. It soon quietened down but every noise this car makes that could be abnormal worries me.
The engine oil is starting to look a little low (still within limits). I also notices that if i cornered sharply the oil pressure gauge dropped.
Could it be a bit of oil starvation due to the level getting low? Or do i need to worry?
I'm looking to track the car later this month but if it's likely to result in misery i might give it a miss until the car is 100%
Also, i'm still yet to find an independent specialist in the Sheffield area. Can anyone recommend one to me?
Cheers,
It was serviced earlier this year at a specialist by the previous keeper. The history of the car is very good so i assume it was serviced to the recommended guidelines.
Although i cant confirm its had 0/15 in it so a top up might not be an option. I'll happily drop all the oil out of it and refill if required.
Although i cant confirm its had 0/15 in it so a top up might not be an option. I'll happily drop all the oil out of it and refill if required.
Dixie said:
It was serviced earlier this year at a specialist by the previous keeper. The history of the car is very good so i assume it was serviced to the recommended guidelines.
Although i cant confirm its had 0/15 in it so a top up might not be an option. I'll happily drop all the oil out of it and refill if required.
Porsche recommend 0W/40 as a minimum and 5W/40 if the engine has done a few miles. I've been using the thicker grade since about 35K miles. I would try an oil change with a good quality 5/40 and go from there.Although i cant confirm its had 0/15 in it so a top up might not be an option. I'll happily drop all the oil out of it and refill if required.
BertBert said:
If the pressure is dropping I'd say that's probably a problem wouldn't you?
Well no. It's within the limits of the startup check. 2 bars above the min line. If being 2 bars above the min line potentially results in oil starvation during cornering then i'd think that the levels in the startup check might need to be adjusted. Hence me asking the question on here rather than just topping the oil up.Dixie said:
Hi,
Just looking for a bit of advice. After a bit of a spirited drive yesterday the engine began to make a reasonably loud ticking sound once i pulled up at a junction. It soon quietened down but every noise this car makes that could be abnormal worries me.
The engine oil is starting to look a little low (still within limits). I also notices that if i cornered sharply the oil pressure gauge dropped.
Could it be a bit of oil starvation due to the level getting low? Or do i need to worry?
I'm looking to track the car later this month but if it's likely to result in misery i might give it a miss until the car is 100%
Also, i'm still yet to find an independent specialist in the Sheffield area. Can anyone recommend one to me?
Cheers,
A pal of mine used these people down attercliffe common for his porsche and was impressedJust looking for a bit of advice. After a bit of a spirited drive yesterday the engine began to make a reasonably loud ticking sound once i pulled up at a junction. It soon quietened down but every noise this car makes that could be abnormal worries me.
The engine oil is starting to look a little low (still within limits). I also notices that if i cornered sharply the oil pressure gauge dropped.
Could it be a bit of oil starvation due to the level getting low? Or do i need to worry?
I'm looking to track the car later this month but if it's likely to result in misery i might give it a miss until the car is 100%
Also, i'm still yet to find an independent specialist in the Sheffield area. Can anyone recommend one to me?
Cheers,
http://www.statller.com/
Dixie said:
Well no. It's within the limits of the startup check. 2 bars above the min line. If being 2 bars above the min line potentially results in oil starvation during cornering then i'd think that the levels in the startup check might need to be adjusted. Hence me asking the question on here rather than just topping the oil up.
Surely this refers to oil LEVEL not PRESSURE?river_rat said:
Dixie said:
Well no. It's within the limits of the startup check. 2 bars above the min line. If being 2 bars above the min line potentially results in oil starvation during cornering then i'd think that the levels in the startup check might need to be adjusted. Hence me asking the question on here rather than just topping the oil up.
Surely this refers to oil LEVEL not PRESSURE?Dixie said:
river_rat said:
Dixie said:
Well no. It's within the limits of the startup check. 2 bars above the min line. If being 2 bars above the min line potentially results in oil starvation during cornering then i'd think that the levels in the startup check might need to be adjusted. Hence me asking the question on here rather than just topping the oil up.
Surely this refers to oil LEVEL not PRESSURE?ras62 said:
....Or not at all due to a failed scavenge pump. Whatever the problem I would get it seen to immediately.
This ^^^^. The symptoms are exactly what happens when the scavenge pump attached to one of the heads (and driven off the end of one of the cams) has failed. Rather than oil being forcibly returned from the head to the sump by the scavenge pump, it only has gravity to pull the oil back to the sump. This works OK (sort of) until you go round a corner with the head with the failed scavenge pump on the outside of the turn. Centrifugal force then completely stops any oil from that side of the engine returning to the sump. Oil pools in that head and eventually the sump runs dry - with the oil pressure light flashing accordingly.
To the OP - Replacing a faulty scavenge pump isn't the most massive job or the most expensive, but not doing so will kill your engine very effectively and very quickly indeed. DON'T use the car. Have it towed to your nearest good independent and have them remove the scavenge pumps. You'll soon know which one is the knackered one (ask me how I know)!
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Monday 6th July 18:40
OK so it's been into Nobles in Chesterfield and they seem to think it's just due to low oil. On a warm oil check it's showing at the minimum so fingers crossed all it needs is a little bit of a top up.
I spoke to two specialists who both said that a scavenger pump failure is unlikely and extremely uncommon. I will however keep a very close eye on it. Thank you for the heads up. If the oil top up doesn't resolve the issues i'm having i'll get it booked in for a more detailed inspection.
Must keep a closer eye on the oil checks as well.
I spoke to two specialists who both said that a scavenger pump failure is unlikely and extremely uncommon. I will however keep a very close eye on it. Thank you for the heads up. If the oil top up doesn't resolve the issues i'm having i'll get it booked in for a more detailed inspection.
Must keep a closer eye on the oil checks as well.
Dixie said:
OK so it's been into Nobles in Chesterfield and they seem to think it's just due to low oil. On a warm oil check it's showing at the minimum so fingers crossed all it needs is a little bit of a top up.
I spoke to two specialists who both said that a scavenger pump failure is unlikely and extremely uncommon. I will however keep a very close eye on it. Thank you for the heads up. If the oil top up doesn't resolve the issues i'm having i'll get it booked in for a more detailed inspection.
Must keep a closer eye on the oil checks as well.
Unlikely and extremely uncommon, maybe, but I can guarantee not impossible! As you've doubtless guessed from my earlier post, I owned a car a few years ago (996 C4 3.4) that had just this failure. The symptoms were exactly as you described in your first post, hence my description and (admittedly armchair) diagnosis. I spoke to two specialists who both said that a scavenger pump failure is unlikely and extremely uncommon. I will however keep a very close eye on it. Thank you for the heads up. If the oil top up doesn't resolve the issues i'm having i'll get it booked in for a more detailed inspection.
Must keep a closer eye on the oil checks as well.
If it's not the scavenge pump, you shouldn't see the oil light flicker again now the oil's topped-up. If it does, then IMHO, the likelihood is a scavenge pump failure. If you do see the light flicker again, make a mental note of whether you'd just gone round a left or right hand bend (it would usually happen after a long curve, with constant g-force, if it's a scavenge pump). This would help your specialist diagnose which side the problem's on.
Ian_UK1 said:
Unlikely and extremely uncommon, maybe, but I can guarantee not impossible! As you've doubtless guessed from my earlier post, I owned a car a few years ago (996 C4 3.4) that had just this failure. The symptoms were exactly as you described in your first post, hence my description and (admittedly armchair) diagnosis.
If it's not the scavenge pump, you shouldn't see the oil light flicker again now the oil's topped-up. If it does, then IMHO, the likelihood is a scavenge pump failure. If you do see the light flicker again, make a mental note of whether you'd just gone round a left or right hand bend (it would usually happen after a long curve, with constant g-force, if it's a scavenge pump). This would help your specialist diagnose which side the problem's on.
As terrifying as your diagnosis is it's very much appreciated. Not that i wanted anything else to worry about on the car mind you!! If it's not the scavenge pump, you shouldn't see the oil light flicker again now the oil's topped-up. If it does, then IMHO, the likelihood is a scavenge pump failure. If you do see the light flicker again, make a mental note of whether you'd just gone round a left or right hand bend (it would usually happen after a long curve, with constant g-force, if it's a scavenge pump). This would help your specialist diagnose which side the problem's on.
Thankfully the oil light never came on, i just noticed the gauge drop. Fingers crossed the oil top up does the trick!
Thank you all for your replies.
OK so topped the oil up last night. Took just over a liter! Not had a chance to fully test it yet although some erratic direction chances and the odd roundabout seem to be OK. the oil pressure drops slightly to maybe 3 bar.
Another question though..... So i toped the oil up using the dipstick. It's showing about 3/4 on there. Digital readout on the display initially showed full (with the top block unlit) the engine had been run at idle. After a run it now shows all bars lit including the one over the top line. If that makes sense. Which do i trust? Do i need to cover myself in oil trying to drop 250ml out?? Or do i trust the dipstick.
The car is on a level surface when taking the readings.
New cars!! Argh. I knew my Elise inside out. I fear it's going to take some time to get to know this one.
Another question though..... So i toped the oil up using the dipstick. It's showing about 3/4 on there. Digital readout on the display initially showed full (with the top block unlit) the engine had been run at idle. After a run it now shows all bars lit including the one over the top line. If that makes sense. Which do i trust? Do i need to cover myself in oil trying to drop 250ml out?? Or do i trust the dipstick.
The car is on a level surface when taking the readings.
New cars!! Argh. I knew my Elise inside out. I fear it's going to take some time to get to know this one.
The oil level is a side issue. You need to find the reason for the drop in oil pressure.
If oil is being retained in one bank due to a pump failure then level readings will be variable. With over 8 litres of oil in the system, above 2000rpm the oil pressure should always read around 5bar. The tapping noise you heard is likely a hydraulic tappet running with no oil. I would get the car to a Porsche specialist asap.
If oil is being retained in one bank due to a pump failure then level readings will be variable. With over 8 litres of oil in the system, above 2000rpm the oil pressure should always read around 5bar. The tapping noise you heard is likely a hydraulic tappet running with no oil. I would get the car to a Porsche specialist asap.
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