Volkswagen woes - effect on Porsche?
Discussion
Apologies if this is not the correct forum for this topic. Does anyone care to predict to what extent the troubles (ok, almighty mess) of Porsche's parent company will have on it? Difficult to say at this stage so wait and see? Or does anyone see it as a good time to invest in shares?
I wouldn't touch the shares with a ten foot pole. VWs governance has always been challenged with a complicated share structure. The real question is whether this is US only or broader. If they've been cheating tests worldwide then I think it is an almost existential issue for VW. Even without, they will see State AGs jump on the bandwagon and all of a sudden VW will become a pocket to be picked to subsidize the US taxpayers like the banks. They are about to be warmly welcomed into the world of multi-hundred million dollar legal fees. My US legal brethren will be the winners here.
On the Porsche front they might need to put a few more limited editions.
Maybe they'll finally make more GT4's and Spyders for the UK market. Fat chance.
I'm sure the VW share price will lose a little more when the penalties are known but I'd say it's probably as good a time as any to buy, when others aren't buying. Historically the average is much greater and over the long term you'd expect them to climb.
Maybe they'll finally make more GT4's and Spyders for the UK market. Fat chance.
I'm sure the VW share price will lose a little more when the penalties are known but I'd say it's probably as good a time as any to buy, when others aren't buying. Historically the average is much greater and over the long term you'd expect them to climb.
Some internal politics at play. Wouldn't be surprised if a certain Mr Piech tipped the federal authorities off himself! I agree share price could get even worse as the 5-6 Euro billion provision no where near enough. US authorities are going to do their best to maximise fines. They'll work out real carbon (credit) foot print and then multiply by a penal factor to teach VW a lesson. It cost BP £12bn to settle oil spill. Might sound unfair but this will not be far behind.
If VAG have been up to no good then highly likely the other big manufacturers are making a rush to the toilets.
Now the reports of petrol cars possibly being included will make the 11 million number quoted a small drop in the ocean.
Does this mean Audi can be stripped of the Le Mans wins in recent years?!?!
Now the reports of petrol cars possibly being included will make the 11 million number quoted a small drop in the ocean.
Does this mean Audi can be stripped of the Le Mans wins in recent years?!?!
Worse scenario. VW go into liquidation. If so will they take their subsidary companies with them. I believe there are 8 in total. Could it mean Bye Bye to Porsche et al ?I believe that the latest exposure is the tip of the iceberg. Maybe they will just sell off companies to fund their enormous financial liabilities.
Strange times ahead for sure.
Strange times ahead for sure.
VAG (including Porsche) will be fine. They are very profitable (>€10bn AT in 2014) and they have a pile of cash on their balance sheet (c.€20bn).
Plus the way their shares are structured means they have pretty much total control over the company- 50% are owned holding company set up after the failed Porsche acquisition (100% controlled by the company), 20% by the German Government and 17% by the Qatar Government.
Whilst a massive fine in the $20bn range will hurt them, it won't kill them.
edit... plus they employee c.500k people... no way the German Government is going to allow any risk to those jobs.
Plus the way their shares are structured means they have pretty much total control over the company- 50% are owned holding company set up after the failed Porsche acquisition (100% controlled by the company), 20% by the German Government and 17% by the Qatar Government.
Whilst a massive fine in the $20bn range will hurt them, it won't kill them.
edit... plus they employee c.500k people... no way the German Government is going to allow any risk to those jobs.
Chris Stott said:
VAG (including Porsche) will be fine. They are very profitable (>€10bn AT in 2014) and they have a pile of cash on their balance sheet (c.€20bn).
Plus the way their shares are structured means they have pretty much total control over the company- 50% are owned holding company set up after the failed Porsche acquisition (100% controlled by the company), 20% by the German Government and 17% by the Qatar Government.
Whilst a massive fine in the $20bn range will hurt them, it won't kill them.
edit... plus they employee c.500k people... no way the German Government is going to allow any risk to those jobs.
Re-assuring though if the V6 TDI that Porsche use was also proven to have been tampered with would that not make Porsche guilty by association thereby meaning that they could be fined as well? Plus the way their shares are structured means they have pretty much total control over the company- 50% are owned holding company set up after the failed Porsche acquisition (100% controlled by the company), 20% by the German Government and 17% by the Qatar Government.
Whilst a massive fine in the $20bn range will hurt them, it won't kill them.
edit... plus they employee c.500k people... no way the German Government is going to allow any risk to those jobs.
Be interesting to know how many other brands of vehicle are currently under scrutiny. I was watching a newish Evoque TDi being parked the other day , was amazed at the amount of black smoke that was coming out of the exhaust.
I saw a couple of comments earlier today... BMW's X5 3.0lD tested fine, Audi's Q7 3.0lD tested fine.
Not sure if the info is legit or about any others.
Personally, I think if VAG has any other skeletons in its closet, now would be a good time to 'fess up... if it comes out later they might get properly f
ked.
Not sure if the info is legit or about any others.
Personally, I think if VAG has any other skeletons in its closet, now would be a good time to 'fess up... if it comes out later they might get properly f
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