C.Harris on cars - RS vs GT12 vs 650s

[Phooey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58j0Mmj41m0

Best CH vid yet.

Edited by Phooey on Friday 16th October 09:56

[PorscheGT4]

675LT please

as he said a RS would NOT SEE where a 675LT would go.

"the last RS had a understeer issue" lol

RS is a mega tool though esp at £150k

650S fastest anyway on crappy tyres, o well.

and both have better steering feel than a RS Porsche which is the most disappointing ;-)

sums it up ok :-)

[nsm3]

That's handy as the McLaren garage is a couple of miles closer to my house than Porsche!

[robgt3]

Excellent video from C.Harris. The thing is though the RS does cost £100K less than the other two! What other car can you buy that as its driven out of the showroom leaps up in value? I daresay the GT12 may be the one and only exception to normal Aston plummeting residuals; the Mclaren will lose £40K in its first drive out. There is no denying the Macca's ability and the fact that it won this particular test.

[PorscheGT4]

robgt3 said:

Excellent video from C.Harris. The thing is though the RS does cost £100K less than the other two! What other car can you buy that as its driven out of the showroom leaps up in value? I daresay the GT12 may be the one and only exception to normal Aston plummeting residuals; the Mclaren will lose £40K in its first drive out. There is no denying the Macca's ability and the fact that it won this particular test.

the Aston and the 675LT will both go up.

His point was if you had £250k to spend would you pay £100k over for a RS ?

The RS is a mega thing at £140k, but a lass most will end up in garages never seeing a road, it's an odd concept.

If I could have an RS at £140k then yes send me one today please.

[Schermerhorn]

The only time a 991 GT3 RS was £140,000 was when it was first announced. Since then, speculators and hype have pushed the price upto way beyond £200k....all within 8 months!

I wouldn't be surprised if in the future these things are trading at close to half a million.

[Phooey]

Schermerhorn said:

The only time a 991 GT3 RS was £140,000 was when it was first announced. Since then, speculators and hype have pushed the price upto way beyond £200k....all within 8 months!

I wouldn't be surprised if in the future these things are trading at close to half a million.

There only trading at over £200k because you can't get one. In 2 years time there'll be a better RS, and after that, a better one again. I would be very surprised if Porsche don't increase production of future GT models - maybe not to the extent that everyone who wants one will get one, but at least *more* people will be given the chance to own one.

Anyway, fantastic 25mins vid. All 3 cars would be in my garage given the chance, and nice to see the RS capable of nipping on the toes of 'Supercar' machinery. At £145k it's too cheap, at £250k+ it's slightly outclassed. To be expected really.

And on that bombshell...

[Trev450]

I was fortunate enough to be at Llandow when he was making this video. All great cars and I'd have any one of them.

[BubblesNW]

Phooey said:

There only trading at over £200k because you can't get one. In 2 years time there'll be a better RS, and after that, a better one again.

And on that bombshell...

But haven't they released previous GT3RSs which have been surpassed by new / improved models? 996, 997.1, 997.2, 997.2 4.0 (plus earlier 993 and 964s) - and all of them are still selling at a premium. Nostalgia sells as well as capability of the latest and greatest.

[mdianuk]

Confused a little by the piece. I'm sure Romans International had the orange GT3RS up at £180-190k but now states POA. The 650 is around the same, as is the 650LT, not £250k cars. Maybe I'm wrong, can't seem to find prices for the MacLarens

[Schermerhorn]

Phooey said:

Schermerhorn said:

The only time a 991 GT3 RS was £140,000 was when it was first announced. Since then, speculators and hype have pushed the price upto way beyond £200k....all within 8 months!

I wouldn't be surprised if in the future these things are trading at close to half a million.

There only trading at over £200k because you can't get one. In 2 years time there'll be a better RS, and after that, a better one again. I would be very surprised if Porsche don't increase production of future GT models - maybe not to the extent that everyone who wants one will get one, but at least *more* people will be given the chance to own one.

If you can't get one now, 8 months after release, and prices have doubled, I'd say desirability will remain very high for many years to come. Infact, if you can't get one now, you won't be able to get one later unless you pay a mega premium.

In my experience, the RS cars are ultra desirable, and as long as previous iterations are desirable, current ones will be too. The RS moniker pretty much guarantees the 'best' driving experience Porsche can give too, so it's not like we're getting a watered down barge with a great badge; we're always going to get a GREAT car with a great badge on it.

I just wish speculators wouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.

[isaldiri]

Schermerhorn said:

If you can't get one now, 8 months after release, and prices have doubled, I'd say desirability will remain very high for many years to come. Infact, if you can't get one now, you won't be able to get one later unless you pay a mega premium.

In my experience, the RS cars are ultra desirable, and as long as previous iterations are desirable, current ones will be too. The RS moniker pretty much guarantees the 'best' driving experience Porsche can give too, so it's not like we're getting a watered down barge with a great badge; we're always going to get a GREAT car with a great badge on it.

I just wish speculators wouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.

Potentially getting out of topic but.. it's not really the speculators ruining things is it but PAG itself.

Porsche have the opportunity to correct all that easily enough by simply making enough cars to satisfy demand and that would flush out all the speculators quickly. People now actively buy GT cars in the expectation that they will appreciate. That was absolutely not the case previously even as recently as the 7.2 RS (4.0 obviously different) when while the GT cars depreciated less than most others, they still most assuredly went down in price.

However, PAG seem at the moment to actively want to do what they are doing ie limit supply, increase speculation/prices for select models to drive up the hype/frenzy etc for them in the belief (probably rightly) that it will then get sufficient spillover demand to flog off the bog standard sports cars plus add some extra gloss to the brand itself to help them flog off the even more profitable nonsense like the Panamera/Cayenne/Macan.

[GT2CS]

Great video.
Of course we all like to think of Chris H as a fully independent car reviewer, but
I wonder if the fact that Chris has had a 650s on loan for the past 3 months from McLaren had any impact on his comments?

[w5pwr]

mdianuk said:

Confused a little by the piece. I'm sure Romans International had the orange GT3RS up at £180-190k but now states POA. The 650 is around the same, as is the 650LT, not £250k cars. Maybe I'm wrong, can't seem to find prices for the MacLarens

Saw the advert and the Romans car was a LHD and was £180k+VAT (£216k)

[mdianuk]

GT2CS said:

Great video.
Of course we all like to think of Chris H as a fully independent car reviewer, but I wonder if the fact that Chris has had a 650s on loan for the past 3 months from McLaren had any impact on his comments?

I guess it may skew the outcome a little, but only from the standpoint that Chris has first hand long term experience with the car; I doubt he'd take a position of bias when he's usually so vocal. Ultimately, there hasn't really been anyone disagreeing with him, so can't be too far from the truth. However, YMMV.

w5pwr said:

Saw the advert and the Romans car was a LHD and was £180k+VAT (£216k)

Ah right, thanks for the clarification.

[Phooey]

BubblesNW said:

But haven't they released previous GT3RSs which have been surpassed by new / improved models? 996, 997.1, 997.2, 997.2 4.0 (plus earlier 993 and 964s) - and all of them are still selling at a premium.

This is still only a recent thing/trend though (since the 997 4.0RS).

[franki68]

GT2CS said:

Great video.
Of course we all like to think of Chris H as a fully independent car reviewer, but
I wonder if the fact that Chris has had a 650s on loan for the past 3 months from McLaren had any impact on his comments?

or the fact he is paid by porsche for articles for 'Christos' or whatever their magazine is called .

[Mark A S]

Thoroughly enjoyed that, a well presented and thought out piece of motoring journalism.

[isaldiri]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But at the time, Porsche did make sufficient numbers of the 6RS/7.1RS/7.2RS pretty much to satisfy the available demand. There was always demand for the GT cars as they were perceived to be drivers cars. The market has gone mad now because of the perception of guaranteed appreciation in the GT cars as collector's cars.

Which if they so wanted, Porsche could easily strike that out by saying they would build more cars and ordering dealers to play less idiotic games with allocations. That assumes of course they are not acually content to perpetuate that notion of being 'exclusive' etc (as Ferrari do) for brand positioning.

[isaldiri]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The crazed older market is what it is clearly due to loony speculators/punuters. I meant Porsche has the means now to restore sense to the new GT model market like preventing insane things like a new RHD 991 RS being listed at £250+k if they so choose. Which they might well not for brand positioning etc obviously... I also merely note that the GT cars were once welcomed to the market as drivers cars (and they were never limited previously and yet had plenty of demand), now they are welcomed almost more as collector cars.