2S and 4S, what did you choose?
Discussion
The wet autumn weather, falling tree leaves and the rubber residue left on the road from a dry summer means that my Cayman is starting to waggle its tail especially as my rear PS2's enter their last few millimetres of remaining tread.
As I am now looking for 911 it got me thinking about what makes people choose between the 2 wheel drive and the 4 wheel drive variant.
Without getting into an argument over which one is "better", I'd like to know if you made a concious decision to have one or the other.
Despite finding an absolutely perfect 997.2 4S example I have decided to hold out specifically for the 2S.
The reason is if a 911 is anything like my Cayman then it doesn't need any more traction, not only that but I want to sample the bread and butter of the 911 range and experience that 37/64 weight distribution in all of its glory. Plus you can't beat a bit of tomfoolery out of junctions
I have no doubt that in the autumn and winter months a 4S would be a much quicker and easier car to drive though, but I value the interaction more than the additional speed.
Over to you
As I am now looking for 911 it got me thinking about what makes people choose between the 2 wheel drive and the 4 wheel drive variant.
Without getting into an argument over which one is "better", I'd like to know if you made a concious decision to have one or the other.
Despite finding an absolutely perfect 997.2 4S example I have decided to hold out specifically for the 2S.
The reason is if a 911 is anything like my Cayman then it doesn't need any more traction, not only that but I want to sample the bread and butter of the 911 range and experience that 37/64 weight distribution in all of its glory. Plus you can't beat a bit of tomfoolery out of junctions
I have no doubt that in the autumn and winter months a 4S would be a much quicker and easier car to drive though, but I value the interaction more than the additional speed.
Over to you
Edited by Beknown on Saturday 31st October 13:39
i choose C2S, more engaging. 991 is already wide in 2S form nowadays. Not prepared to pay 8k or there around more for the 4wd. Grip is fine with a 2S with electronics on. flooring it in the rain at 50mph only makes it go sideways for half a second before the gadgets kick in and cars pulls straight.
I find the PSM has very little to do in the Cayman, when the back just slip its only for a split second. The ones I've driven with Sport Chrono an the increased slip give a nice amount of play with a safety net.
threespins said:
I went out on a "quick" run with the Super Car Drivers Club last Spring. On stopping half way round many of the drivers were commenting how slippery the roads were. I never noticed a thing in the 4S. If you drive all year round and like to make progress its an easy decision.
Surely if you don't notice the slippery roads under braking and cornering then you are not driving fast enough to warrant the 4 wheel drive?I chose the 991 4S for the following reasons:
i) I wanted the "best" I could afford
ii) It was just newly out when I purchased mine in Dec 2012
iii) I loved the wider body and the red strip light across the back
Pretty shallow really - nothing to do with driving other than a belief that it would be better!
i) I wanted the "best" I could afford
ii) It was just newly out when I purchased mine in Dec 2012
iii) I loved the wider body and the red strip light across the back
Pretty shallow really - nothing to do with driving other than a belief that it would be better!
Honest reasons from the guy above. I expect 80% of C4 S sell simply because they are more expensive and so 'better'; 20 % are because people worried about wet roads these days, etc (wrongly).
If you have traction problems in a modern 911, you need new rear tyres or are an amazingly fast driver. AWD doesn't give you more grip, so cornering speeds are pretty much identical.
If you have traction problems in a modern 911, you need new rear tyres or are an amazingly fast driver. AWD doesn't give you more grip, so cornering speeds are pretty much identical.
I live in the Highlands. We do snow and water very well indeed hereabouts. Plus lots of leaves and general slipperiness. So started out looking for a 997.2 C4S. Drove several. Bought a C2S and very happy that I did so: for me, it just feels more '911', has a lighter but more precise steering feel (YMMV) and just adjusts so beautifully on the road. Even on summers, the 911 is far better than any other RWD car I've driven in the snow, as long as you don't get the back end coming around in the snow going into a downhill off-camber bend (ahem). On winters, it's a complete hoot, right up to the point where the rads fill with snow and it becomes a sledge, at which point the number of driven wheels is irrelevant.
If I were coming from a Cayman and, given that the Caymans do handle so utterly brilliantly, a large part of my motivation for doing so would be the challenge of learning to drive a 911 properly, given that it's one of the very last cars to have its own real character compared to its peers. Which is also why I'm less keen on the 991.
If I were coming from a Cayman and, given that the Caymans do handle so utterly brilliantly, a large part of my motivation for doing so would be the challenge of learning to drive a 911 properly, given that it's one of the very last cars to have its own real character compared to its peers. Which is also why I'm less keen on the 991.
Beknown said:
Surely if you don't notice the slippery roads under braking and cornering then you are not driving fast enough to warrant the 4 wheel drive?
That's probably true as well for any modern high performance car, for anyone who isn't driving like a complete loon on the public road. The number of times I'm able to push my car hard enough for the difference twixt 4 and 2 to become apparent is, I suspect, minimal. And I'm not usually accused of hanging about.I`m no driving god I just wanted a good 911 to enjoy so I bought a 997.2 4S because it was quicker and looked better than the 997.1 2S I test drove before it (I know different engine etc). I then decided a 997.2 it was and either a 2S or 4S would have done.
I ended up with a 4S purely because of the high spec and low miles and it was there at the time although had a similar condition 2S been available at the time I could have bought it. The fatter rear end and red strip admittedly swung me and at realistic two figure speeds it makes me happy so that's where I am.
It's my first 911 and I wasn't particularly bothered whether I got a 2S or a 4S - I just knew I wanted a 997.2 S with a good amount of kit.
I ended up with a 4S and with living in Luxembourg I am interested to see if and when the snow comes I will see the benefit of AWD. I doubt I will keep it more than 18 months or so and to be honest I feel the car is a bit large for my liking anyway.
It does make launch control completely unnecessary though - maybe 0.2 seconds of slip and we're fully keyed in and away. I do wonder if a 2S would be more fun on corner exit or in a straight line as I seem to be able to take incredible liberties with throttle application, though this may just be me still learning how to get the best out of the RR setup.
I ended up with a 4S and with living in Luxembourg I am interested to see if and when the snow comes I will see the benefit of AWD. I doubt I will keep it more than 18 months or so and to be honest I feel the car is a bit large for my liking anyway.
It does make launch control completely unnecessary though - maybe 0.2 seconds of slip and we're fully keyed in and away. I do wonder if a 2S would be more fun on corner exit or in a straight line as I seem to be able to take incredible liberties with throttle application, though this may just be me still learning how to get the best out of the RR setup.
I was looking for a C2S when a nice C4S came onto the market and after test driving it I really liked it. In normal driving I honestly couldn't tell the difference and liked the wide body.
Having pushed harder since the test drive I'm still learning how to use the 4 wheel drive system vs 2 wheel drive.
Having pushed harder since the test drive I'm still learning how to use the 4 wheel drive system vs 2 wheel drive.
Edited by swilding on Sunday 1st November 18:15
I chose a 4S for safety. I use winter tyres in the winter. I'm nearly 50 and I don't want unexpected oversteer in dangerous conditions, I just want to get home as quickly as possible. I have a rwd 993 for summer fun, but for cold/rainy/snowy days there is no way that I would choose a C2 over a C4.
If I was only using the car as a weekend toy then I'd buy a 2S.
If I was only using the car as a weekend toy then I'd buy a 2S.
I had a 997.2 4S and basically got it purely because of those wider rear hips.
You cannot get oversteer on the road in anything other than 1st gear. I personally liked the keener front end but it is worth pointing out that it never felt anything other than RWD.
My dad has a new 991 C4 and it has a fancy graphic showing you how much power is going to the front and rear. I've never it go more than about 20% to the front.
You cannot get oversteer on the road in anything other than 1st gear. I personally liked the keener front end but it is worth pointing out that it never felt anything other than RWD.
My dad has a new 991 C4 and it has a fancy graphic showing you how much power is going to the front and rear. I've never it go more than about 20% to the front.
I've driven both, and in most respects they feel very similar - the C4S only distributes about 10% drive to the front transmission in normal circumstances.
Anyone who says they need 4wd to be 'safer', must have marginal driving abilities if they risk losing control of a 2wd 997/991, with all the driver aids.
However, I did prefer the C4S, I found the steering felt better and the turn-in slightly more precise. And, yes, the wider body does have a bit more presence. But both great cars though.
Anyone who says they need 4wd to be 'safer', must have marginal driving abilities if they risk losing control of a 2wd 997/991, with all the driver aids.
However, I did prefer the C4S, I found the steering felt better and the turn-in slightly more precise. And, yes, the wider body does have a bit more presence. But both great cars though.
C4 was never even on a possibility for me. These are already heavy cars. I would be extremely slow to add a lot of weight and blunt the finesse for the sake of imagined safety effects. If you are finding a 2WD 997 or 991 dangerous, you are at twice the legal or safe speed for a corner. Have you seen the size of the bloody tyres?! You need a bootful of throttle or a reckless entry speed to encounter oversteer, and even then the electronics will catch it before you do.
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