996TT 500+ bhp tuner question
Discussion
My 996TT is off OPC warrantee by the end of Feb. I want to get the ECU re-done for approx 490 to 510 bhp
Of the plethora of tuners in the UK I have spoke to a few – all offer sage advice. They rate their “programming” and levels of research but down play others. Some say it is the “actual” programme of big name tuners. Presumably they bought said competitors program, copied and re-sell the code. Reading between the lines I suspect pretty much the same “tune” goes out the door from most tuners. So my questions is : is there really a practical on road difference between tuner A & B’s programmes (fuel consumption / flat spots ) at set boost increments. As price ranges from £1000+ all the way to £2400 just for the ECU work why pay more ? Who do you all out there rate ? Have you had the work done ?
Of the plethora of tuners in the UK I have spoke to a few – all offer sage advice. They rate their “programming” and levels of research but down play others. Some say it is the “actual” programme of big name tuners. Presumably they bought said competitors program, copied and re-sell the code. Reading between the lines I suspect pretty much the same “tune” goes out the door from most tuners. So my questions is : is there really a practical on road difference between tuner A & B’s programmes (fuel consumption / flat spots ) at set boost increments. As price ranges from £1000+ all the way to £2400 just for the ECU work why pay more ? Who do you all out there rate ? Have you had the work done ?
I don't own a Turbo, but this sort of thing interests me.
I spoke to Rob from DMS at the last Vmax. He gets lots of great publicity in the mags and he does a lot of tuning as a result. It seems all his customers are very happy. Rods on this forum has his 996 Turbo tuned by Rob, although his car now features bigger Turbos.
All DMS do is reprogram the ECU, they don't put your car on a rolling road and do a custom re-map. I suppose this would cost much more. Rob at DMS doesn't think this is necessary anyway. I rode in Rods' car at Vmax (before big turbos but with a DMS reprogrammed ECU) and it went very well, no flat spots etc. I also had a go in Rob's own 996 X50 which has an alleged 590 BHP and it went really well, nearly as fast as GuyR's GT2 but heavier, so quite impressive.
There are other reputable firms out there like AMD and the fella who left AMD (can't remember his name, someone will pitch in with this). Domster is friendly with one of the tuners and an e-mail to him might be useful.
However, a useful bottom line is that there isn't much wrong with DMS product. It's the most talked about one and not bad value.....more than a grand mind you......over 2 grand I believe.
I spoke to Rob from DMS at the last Vmax. He gets lots of great publicity in the mags and he does a lot of tuning as a result. It seems all his customers are very happy. Rods on this forum has his 996 Turbo tuned by Rob, although his car now features bigger Turbos.
All DMS do is reprogram the ECU, they don't put your car on a rolling road and do a custom re-map. I suppose this would cost much more. Rob at DMS doesn't think this is necessary anyway. I rode in Rods' car at Vmax (before big turbos but with a DMS reprogrammed ECU) and it went very well, no flat spots etc. I also had a go in Rob's own 996 X50 which has an alleged 590 BHP and it went really well, nearly as fast as GuyR's GT2 but heavier, so quite impressive.
There are other reputable firms out there like AMD and the fella who left AMD (can't remember his name, someone will pitch in with this). Domster is friendly with one of the tuners and an e-mail to him might be useful.
However, a useful bottom line is that there isn't much wrong with DMS product. It's the most talked about one and not bad value.....more than a grand mind you......over 2 grand I believe.
The 996TT is an easy car from which to liberate extra BHP however as you correctly pointed out the claims & prices of the established ECU tuners vary wildly. Not to mention that some or most of them do not wish too much scrutiny on a rolling road dyno ??
Weltmeister [mail@weltmeister.co.uk]inform me that the real life figures for a 996TT are:- Assuming you have a std car with 420 BHP now.
All of the numbers quoted are after a bespoke programme is mapped to your car and your ECU no generic "one size fits all" programmes used !
1] ECU upgrade + Filter = 480--490 BHP NOT EVER 500 BHP
2] ECU + Turbo back Exhaust + Filter = 510 BHP
3] ECU + Headers + Turbo back + Filter + K24 Turbos = 550 BHP
He seems to think 575 BHP is the ceiling but only if mapped specifically for all of option 3 and including Water Injection or upgraded intercooler. Apparently the compressor map does not allow the fictional 600 BHP bandied around on anything other than full race fuel. Engine rebuilds with rods etc + hybrid K24/26 Turbos + all of option 3 will give 630+.....
Furtermore they will provide before & after dyno sheets and warranty the work and the driveline.
Regards
Allan
>> Edited by uktrucks on Monday 14th February 17:52
Weltmeister [mail@weltmeister.co.uk]inform me that the real life figures for a 996TT are:- Assuming you have a std car with 420 BHP now.
All of the numbers quoted are after a bespoke programme is mapped to your car and your ECU no generic "one size fits all" programmes used !
1] ECU upgrade + Filter = 480--490 BHP NOT EVER 500 BHP
2] ECU + Turbo back Exhaust + Filter = 510 BHP
3] ECU + Headers + Turbo back + Filter + K24 Turbos = 550 BHP
He seems to think 575 BHP is the ceiling but only if mapped specifically for all of option 3 and including Water Injection or upgraded intercooler. Apparently the compressor map does not allow the fictional 600 BHP bandied around on anything other than full race fuel. Engine rebuilds with rods etc + hybrid K24/26 Turbos + all of option 3 will give 630+.....
Furtermore they will provide before & after dyno sheets and warranty the work and the driveline.
Regards
Allan
>> Edited by uktrucks on Monday 14th February 17:52
Ah well it depends who you talk to on this.
Some tuners do indeed simply have copied maps that they use. I'm told DMS 996T info is just this.
Some do just re-sell bought in maps.
Others have created their own maps from scratch.
I know a few guys that I've recomended to see Ray West at Thruxton, (his own developed & tested custom maps) have all been dead chuffed with the results.
Some tuners do indeed simply have copied maps that they use. I'm told DMS 996T info is just this.
Some do just re-sell bought in maps.
Others have created their own maps from scratch.
I know a few guys that I've recomended to see Ray West at Thruxton, (his own developed & tested custom maps) have all been dead chuffed with the results.
turbobloke said:
The former AMD owner is Geoff Everett, he's never been anything less than 100% in any work I've had carried out in his hands, highly recommended. He's still in the tuning business, 'Milford' is in his new company name somewhere iirc and I think Geoff posts on here occasionally.
www.milfordmicros.co.uk
Late last year I had my 996TT, tuned by AMD and an exhaust fitted by Miltek.
The car was transformed and remains as drivable as ever.
Performance wise the car is awesome IMHO, its putting out 490hp and 522Ft/lbs Torque (approx 700NM), Rolling Roaded..
Both AMD and Miltek were great and took great care of me and the car.
The guys at AMD were keen to point out that the upgrade they do is the maximum you can safely do without resorting to larger Turbo's and compromising relability.
The car was transformed and remains as drivable as ever.
Performance wise the car is awesome IMHO, its putting out 490hp and 522Ft/lbs Torque (approx 700NM), Rolling Roaded..
Both AMD and Miltek were great and took great care of me and the car.
The guys at AMD were keen to point out that the upgrade they do is the maximum you can safely do without resorting to larger Turbo's and compromising relability.
Being 'inside' the industry, although not directly dealing with Porsches, I hear alot of the stuff which circulates in the industry about these conversions.
Needless to say I can't really go into detail, but if you are going to get your turbo chipped, get it done at AMD. Its the best conversion.
Needless to say I can't really go into detail, but if you are going to get your turbo chipped, get it done at AMD. Its the best conversion.
www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?storyId=9502
May be helpful.
I know AmD quite well; sometimes they give PHers special deals, say if Milltek have made a new exhaust and they need to know how good it is on a certain model. Nice, knowedgable and friendly outfit.
May be helpful.
I know AmD quite well; sometimes they give PHers special deals, say if Milltek have made a new exhaust and they need to know how good it is on a certain model. Nice, knowedgable and friendly outfit.
I need to start charging commission 
Dean,
You recently had your gt2 converted by dms, could you let us know how its going? Have you had any problems with it? Does it feel bullet proof and did they raise the rev limiter?
I too am interested in getting mine converted, but am worried of the costs if something goes wrong. Ie a piston melting or turbos going, both of which i experienced on a gt turbo pumping out double the bhp of a std one some years ago. It went like stink but just didnt last.
Cheers
>> Edited by t urbo on Tuesday 15th February 19:01
You recently had your gt2 converted by dms, could you let us know how its going? Have you had any problems with it? Does it feel bullet proof and did they raise the rev limiter?
I too am interested in getting mine converted, but am worried of the costs if something goes wrong. Ie a piston melting or turbos going, both of which i experienced on a gt turbo pumping out double the bhp of a std one some years ago. It went like stink but just didnt last.
Cheers
>> Edited by t urbo on Tuesday 15th February 19:01
Mine has a Milteck exhaust and the West set up. I lent it to Ray West last week so he could go and speak to the manufacturer of G-Force's rolling road and apparently it was running up to 507BHP on their system. Can't recommend Ray and Nigel at West enough they have always provided fantastic support. Incidentally Rob at DMS used to work for Ray and learned his trade there.........
Be aware of two things though.
1. Despite their assurances, do not be certain that Porsche cannot detect a re-chip and will void warranty accordingly.
2. If the rev-limit is increased this will be logged as an over-rev by the ecu and Porsche will also refuse any warranty claims accordingly.
Guy
1. Despite their assurances, do not be certain that Porsche cannot detect a re-chip and will void warranty accordingly.
2. If the rev-limit is increased this will be logged as an over-rev by the ecu and Porsche will also refuse any warranty claims accordingly.
Guy
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