Why is Porsche making the 991R?
Discussion
What is Porsche doing here? I understand the GT4, but this surely goes against the general direction of the market and 911 buyers? Or does it?
So what is it?
GT3 engine - good but its detuned
Manual gearbox - what? They are slow aren't they?
Lightened - so what?
Stripped interior - can I option stuff back in?
No spoilers - its a bit plain, like a cheap Carrera.
GT3 wheels but thinner tyres - thinner! It wont go around corners very fast will it!
Its what 'enthusiasts' want of course. But are they new Porsche buyers? Aren't they going to confuse their core customers?
So, why are they making this model? Its certainly nothing to do with sales. It will probably be a net loss.
Maybe going against the grain is actually genius? And is this just a statement or do they see a new market?
So what is it?
GT3 engine - good but its detuned
Manual gearbox - what? They are slow aren't they?
Lightened - so what?
Stripped interior - can I option stuff back in?
No spoilers - its a bit plain, like a cheap Carrera.
GT3 wheels but thinner tyres - thinner! It wont go around corners very fast will it!
Its what 'enthusiasts' want of course. But are they new Porsche buyers? Aren't they going to confuse their core customers?
So, why are they making this model? Its certainly nothing to do with sales. It will probably be a net loss.
Maybe going against the grain is actually genius? And is this just a statement or do they see a new market?
I think this is really good question.
For me, the short answer is, they build these cars because they can.
They can build these cars because they sell enough of the "regular" 911/Boxster/Cayman to pay for them. Even given the profits from the Cayenne/Macan/Panamera, the sports cars still have to wash their own face - it costs a lot of money to design and build these platforms and Porsche needs to make sure they remain usable on a daily basis by its core market. I know everyone frets about them becoming too mass-market and too sanitised, but I try to remember their proximity to bankruptcy in the 90s looms over the corporate mindset. IMHO they are all good cars in their own right, anyway.
I think the GT cars and the Exclusive cars are part of how the factory ensures the flame still burns strong deep in the heart of Porsche. The 911R seems more likely to me to be led by the Exclusive department than the GT department, in the old Speedster or Flatnose vein. The most recent comparison would be with the 997 Sport Classic. But it sounds like it will differ in approach to weight. They saved weight on the SC with the bespoke panelling but it is loaded with leather everything and almost every option from the brochure - except a TV I think - and of course PDK
The thing that really sold it to me is the double-bubble roof and the ducktail. But over time I realised the engine is also a very special thing. Although it was "only" a regular motor with the power-kit (and some extra carbon induction goodies), it revs out unlike anything else in a 997. And it howls like an injured banshee. Chassis-wise, although the GTS was seen by many to steal its thunder (the SC was only briefly the only wide-bodied, rear wheel drive 997) the springs and dampers were tuned differently to the GTS and it rides with a suppleness and progressiveness on British roads which is unmatched in a modern 911.
It sounds like the 991R will be closer to its GT sibling than the Sport Classic was to its but I think the R will be in a similar vein to the Sport Classic - essentially a road car, heavily inspired by Porsche's track history. Maybe I'd think of the motor in the R as less of a de-tuned GT3 engine and rather more of a retuned motor, better-suited for road use and a manual gearbox, i.e. still happy to rev-out but with a bit more low down punch.
I'm sure I'll love it, not be able to afford it and unlikely anyway to be offered one new. But maybe if it is a misunderstood thing - like the SC was for a while - there might be a chance of picking one up used in a year or two.
For me, the short answer is, they build these cars because they can.
They can build these cars because they sell enough of the "regular" 911/Boxster/Cayman to pay for them. Even given the profits from the Cayenne/Macan/Panamera, the sports cars still have to wash their own face - it costs a lot of money to design and build these platforms and Porsche needs to make sure they remain usable on a daily basis by its core market. I know everyone frets about them becoming too mass-market and too sanitised, but I try to remember their proximity to bankruptcy in the 90s looms over the corporate mindset. IMHO they are all good cars in their own right, anyway.
I think the GT cars and the Exclusive cars are part of how the factory ensures the flame still burns strong deep in the heart of Porsche. The 911R seems more likely to me to be led by the Exclusive department than the GT department, in the old Speedster or Flatnose vein. The most recent comparison would be with the 997 Sport Classic. But it sounds like it will differ in approach to weight. They saved weight on the SC with the bespoke panelling but it is loaded with leather everything and almost every option from the brochure - except a TV I think - and of course PDK
The thing that really sold it to me is the double-bubble roof and the ducktail. But over time I realised the engine is also a very special thing. Although it was "only" a regular motor with the power-kit (and some extra carbon induction goodies), it revs out unlike anything else in a 997. And it howls like an injured banshee. Chassis-wise, although the GTS was seen by many to steal its thunder (the SC was only briefly the only wide-bodied, rear wheel drive 997) the springs and dampers were tuned differently to the GTS and it rides with a suppleness and progressiveness on British roads which is unmatched in a modern 911.It sounds like the 991R will be closer to its GT sibling than the Sport Classic was to its but I think the R will be in a similar vein to the Sport Classic - essentially a road car, heavily inspired by Porsche's track history. Maybe I'd think of the motor in the R as less of a de-tuned GT3 engine and rather more of a retuned motor, better-suited for road use and a manual gearbox, i.e. still happy to rev-out but with a bit more low down punch.
I'm sure I'll love it, not be able to afford it and unlikely anyway to be offered one new. But maybe if it is a misunderstood thing - like the SC was for a while - there might be a chance of picking one up used in a year or two.
I don't think many people know exactly what it's going to be yet. Not even revealed to 918 owners til end Feb (and they are paying for the privilege!)
If it's a fully tuned engine, with a significantly lightened body and a 6speed (non Rev-matching) manual with correct gearing and minimal driver aids, then it could be the ultimate manual, NA car. If that's in a road car without a huge rear spoiler on it, all the better.
To me, that's far more desirable than the GT3RS which is like a pretend race car that's neither that, nor a road car. I have a feeling it's going to be like a GT4 on steroids, (in a good way), and Porsche will over-deliver, but let's see,
If it's a fully tuned engine, with a significantly lightened body and a 6speed (non Rev-matching) manual with correct gearing and minimal driver aids, then it could be the ultimate manual, NA car. If that's in a road car without a huge rear spoiler on it, all the better.
To me, that's far more desirable than the GT3RS which is like a pretend race car that's neither that, nor a road car. I have a feeling it's going to be like a GT4 on steroids, (in a good way), and Porsche will over-deliver, but let's see,
Edited by footsoldier on Friday 29th January 08:47
They are making this car for me.
I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
wtdoom said:
They are making this car for me.
I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
Exactly...I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
LaurasOtherHalf said:
If it gets a 3 page spread in most motoring magazines, a 10 mins section on top gear/whatever tv show, how much would you value that free publicity to your brand?
I have no doubt that it is part of thought process and there can be no doubt that it works. The 911 still stirs great emotions in many people and they play this card very well.wtdoom said:
They are making this car for me.
I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
We will all want one but most of us cannot afford one! Love the sports classic and was hoping prices would tumble when they came out,they did briefly to £100 k ish but no furtherI want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
Carl_Manchester said:
why? it's because Porsche want to produce another flippers trinket in order to maintain the image of being the producer of cars that are really desirable. sorry sir can't sell you one of those but I can flog you a new 991.2....
Cynical? Yes but you're probably right...wtdoom said:
They are making this car for me.
I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
No. They are making it for me...... I am Spartacus I want a modern , fast 911 that's fun to drive and isn't covered in wings yet is still rare enough to be very special at a decent , usable size that doesn't shout "look at me" to non enthusiasts . A car that will be one of the last NA Porsches for an extremely long lime , still has a manual gearbox and is more about fun than outright track speed . A rare , manual , modern , special , naturally aspirated Porsche . Sounds perfect .
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