Are our cars too good?
Discussion
Let us start by stating some facts.
I'm not the richest by a long stretch here. I'm no LordoftheManor (thank goodness). I clearly don't have the "best" Porsche here - A 996 C4S that has been upgraded by...er ..... adding a red S to the boot.
It is also clear that I am not the worlds best driver. I am a nothing. Just someone who adores his car and driving in it.
Today was frustrating. I have some roads that help me improve through the twisty bits. But. Every. Single. Corner was ruined by traffic. Even when the traffic cleared and I attacked a corner I knew. Even on 90 degree bends. I knew that the car was laughing at me. It was almost taunting me. Is that all you have? Is that all I am going to be challenged with?
Yes my old 2003 996 is too capable for driving in 2016. Even if I was Senna I would still be bound by laws and Vauxhall Zafiras (truly the most hateful car ever made).
So. Here we are. We all talk about GT3's and GT4s and the such but the fact remains. Unless you live in Scotland or some desolate part of the UK or have many track days our cars are wasted. Sure I smile every time I drive the car that has the best arse in the world. But. I can't give her what she really craves 99% of the time. That is a pity.
We're often in cars that are just too good for driving in normal conditions.
I'm not the richest by a long stretch here. I'm no LordoftheManor (thank goodness). I clearly don't have the "best" Porsche here - A 996 C4S that has been upgraded by...er ..... adding a red S to the boot.
It is also clear that I am not the worlds best driver. I am a nothing. Just someone who adores his car and driving in it.
Today was frustrating. I have some roads that help me improve through the twisty bits. But. Every. Single. Corner was ruined by traffic. Even when the traffic cleared and I attacked a corner I knew. Even on 90 degree bends. I knew that the car was laughing at me. It was almost taunting me. Is that all you have? Is that all I am going to be challenged with?
Yes my old 2003 996 is too capable for driving in 2016. Even if I was Senna I would still be bound by laws and Vauxhall Zafiras (truly the most hateful car ever made).
So. Here we are. We all talk about GT3's and GT4s and the such but the fact remains. Unless you live in Scotland or some desolate part of the UK or have many track days our cars are wasted. Sure I smile every time I drive the car that has the best arse in the world. But. I can't give her what she really craves 99% of the time. That is a pity.
We're often in cars that are just too good for driving in normal conditions.
Looking at your profile you're in Leicestershire, not sure where but this may be doable for you. This route is one that I use a lot that is almost always deserted, especially early on a Sunday morning when you'll be lucky to see more than a handfull of cars.
Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
GTD40 said:
Sold my 997 GT3 years ago due to this fact. Only way to get a buzz was to do silly speeds .....not worth losing license over.
Actually enjoyed my 996 more for road use.
Now have hoon cars that give a sense of occasion at normal speeds
Pretty much why I sold my GT3, compromised as a road car and there's better options available for track....Actually enjoyed my 996 more for road use.
Now have hoon cars that give a sense of occasion at normal speeds
oldnbold said:
Looking at your profile you're in Leicestershire, not sure where but this may be doable for you. This route is one that I use a lot that is almost always deserted, especially early on a Sunday morning when you'll be lucky to see more than a handfull of cars.
Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
I live in a little village just outside Corby, thanks for the routes, I shall be trying both of these out. I'm very new to the area having moved down from the North so I don't know anywhere yet so thank you Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
a4ash said:
oldnbold said:
Looking at your profile you're in Leicestershire, not sure where but this may be doable for you. This route is one that I use a lot that is almost always deserted, especially early on a Sunday morning when you'll be lucky to see more than a handfull of cars.
Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
I live in a little village just outside Corby, thanks for the routes, I shall be trying both of these out. I'm very new to the area having moved down from the North so I don't know anywhere yet so thank you Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
You are right though op. I would recommend going out early evening, roads are so much quieter. Or early morning, but hard work getting up.
Are modern sports cars 'too good'? Yep.
Its why many are seeking out older Porsches. More fun to be had at lower speeds that feel faster! The smells, the interaction, the challenge, the character, the playful chassis!
Stretching a 991 on the queens highway is a highly risky and ultimately frustrating endeavour. In a 130bhp 2.0 911, its an exciting pleasure.
Its why many are seeking out older Porsches. More fun to be had at lower speeds that feel faster! The smells, the interaction, the challenge, the character, the playful chassis!
Stretching a 991 on the queens highway is a highly risky and ultimately frustrating endeavour. In a 130bhp 2.0 911, its an exciting pleasure.
" Unless you live in Scotland or some desolate part of the UK "
Correct, deserted A and B roads with 2 and 3 mile long straights,
matters not how long it is the turbo murders them...
4TH dry day here in a row and that's something to celebrate in Feb.
Had it out again today, and well, makes all the big bills and
thought worth it.....
Correct, deserted A and B roads with 2 and 3 mile long straights,
matters not how long it is the turbo murders them...
4TH dry day here in a row and that's something to celebrate in Feb.
Had it out again today, and well, makes all the big bills and
thought worth it.....
mollytherocker said:
Are modern sports cars 'too good'? Yep.
More fun to be had at lower speeds that feel faster! The smells, the interaction, the challenge, the character, the playful chassis!
Stretching a 991 on the queens highway is a highly risky and ultimately frustrating endeavour. In a 130bhp 2.0 911, its an exciting pleasure.
I strongly disagree, you spend all your time to manage the cars, and the rot and theMore fun to be had at lower speeds that feel faster! The smells, the interaction, the challenge, the character, the playful chassis!
Stretching a 991 on the queens highway is a highly risky and ultimately frustrating endeavour. In a 130bhp 2.0 911, its an exciting pleasure.
amount of detailing that has to go into them to make them look anything.
Oh no, you can keep the older cars, not for me, been there done that.
Plus they are so slow now in comparison, and yes they have character but a
Golf GTI shows them a clean set of heels never mind a Golf R.
Reality Check.........
Unless the older cars are low mileage garage queens they are mainly
hard work, I have had at least 50 air cooled cars, most of them hassle.
Most people that seek older Porsche's do not have the first clue what they
are getting into, they have plenty of theory and have read the magazine and the
ownership is a notion, when the reality sets in, leaks, rot, failed switchgear
and bulbs, non existent ventilation, systems needing rebuilt, OPC coming back with
a 10k recon bill, wife cant shift it never mind drive it, many cut and run,
and many spend fortunes chasing the rotten bath tubs..
A sad rarely admitted reality
I have to agree on hp though, I have driven a good few early pre 74 cars,
E TS & S models, low bhp however the feel was other worldly, and so now is the
price. Bears no resemblance to clapped out 3.2 needing an engine rebuild and
rot everywhere though does it? Horses for courses.....
oldnbold said:
Looking at your profile you're in Leicestershire, not sure where but this may be doable for you. This route is one that I use a lot that is almost always deserted, especially early on a Sunday morning when you'll be lucky to see more than a handfull of cars.
Here's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
Kimbolton to Holme on the B660 is simply fantastic- rarely any traffic - often used by Peterborough basedHere's another route that runs into Leicestershire, a little bit more traffic but get out early doors and it's great.
car mags for driving/photo shoots.
A lot of talk of modern cars being to capable, I just don't buy it.
First observation would be that almost everyone prefer their car faster and better. Only thing stopping just about any car enthusiast from upgrading their car is normally money. Otherwise their would be tuned engines and upgrades brakes/suspension galore - making them more capable.
Should the much lauded 'modern cars are too capable' actually be true, there would be car enthusiasts up and down the country fitting worse brakes and de-tuning their engines to make their cars more interesting...
First observation would be that almost everyone prefer their car faster and better. Only thing stopping just about any car enthusiast from upgrading their car is normally money. Otherwise their would be tuned engines and upgrades brakes/suspension galore - making them more capable.
Should the much lauded 'modern cars are too capable' actually be true, there would be car enthusiasts up and down the country fitting worse brakes and de-tuning their engines to make their cars more interesting...
Getting the right roads is the key. Not that many around Lincs that I have found so far. However, I had a "moment" in a test drive of the new Ford Mustang 5.0 yesterday, 400+bhp and cold tyres do not mix, especially as the dealer has not fitted winter tyres and the temp was about 5'C. First corner, minor application of throttle and out stepped the back. ESP or whatever Ford call it did not seem to do much, and the poor dealer's face.....
Getting back in my Cayman was like coming home to a car I can trust.
Getting back in my Cayman was like coming home to a car I can trust.
I did ponder the fact a GT3 might be too extreme -twitchy and upset by crap surfaces - for road use enjoyment, which is why I got a 996tt. In point of fact, because the thing is so easily capable of accumulating speed, you do have to be sensible and it does beg for the odd trip to a track, runway or autobahn.
However, the thing I really do love about the car, the times when it really does feel like it comes alive and into its element is on wet roads. For me, there is then a sense of sure-footed fun that I've never previously experienced in a car.
I think, with modern cars, you just need to find the how, when and where in order to extract the fun from them in a legal, non-licence losing way.
However, the thing I really do love about the car, the times when it really does feel like it comes alive and into its element is on wet roads. For me, there is then a sense of sure-footed fun that I've never previously experienced in a car.
I think, with modern cars, you just need to find the how, when and where in order to extract the fun from them in a legal, non-licence losing way.
Innowaybored said:
Let us start by stating some facts.
I'm not the richest by a long stretch here. I'm no LordoftheManor (thank goodness). I clearly don't have the "best" Porsche here - A 996 C4S that has been upgraded by...er ..... adding a red S to the boot.
It is also clear that I am not the worlds best driver. I am a nothing. Just someone who adores his car and driving in it.
Today was frustrating. I have some roads that help me improve through the twisty bits. But. Every. Single. Corner was ruined by traffic. Even when the traffic cleared and I attacked a corner I knew. Even on 90 degree bends. I knew that the car was laughing at me. It was almost taunting me. Is that all you have? Is that all I am going to be challenged with?
Yes my old 2003 996 is too capable for driving in 2016. Even if I was Senna I would still be bound by laws and Vauxhall Zafiras (truly the most hateful car ever made).
So. Here we are. We all talk about GT3's and GT4s and the such but the fact remains. Unless you live in Scotland or some desolate part of the UK or have many track days our cars are wasted. Sure I smile every time I drive the car that has the best arse in the world. But. I can't give her what she really craves 99% of the time. That is a pity.
We're often in cars that are just too good for driving in normal conditions.
Really it depends on what you want to get out of ownership. I'm not the richest by a long stretch here. I'm no LordoftheManor (thank goodness). I clearly don't have the "best" Porsche here - A 996 C4S that has been upgraded by...er ..... adding a red S to the boot.
It is also clear that I am not the worlds best driver. I am a nothing. Just someone who adores his car and driving in it.
Today was frustrating. I have some roads that help me improve through the twisty bits. But. Every. Single. Corner was ruined by traffic. Even when the traffic cleared and I attacked a corner I knew. Even on 90 degree bends. I knew that the car was laughing at me. It was almost taunting me. Is that all you have? Is that all I am going to be challenged with?
Yes my old 2003 996 is too capable for driving in 2016. Even if I was Senna I would still be bound by laws and Vauxhall Zafiras (truly the most hateful car ever made).
So. Here we are. We all talk about GT3's and GT4s and the such but the fact remains. Unless you live in Scotland or some desolate part of the UK or have many track days our cars are wasted. Sure I smile every time I drive the car that has the best arse in the world. But. I can't give her what she really craves 99% of the time. That is a pity.
We're often in cars that are just too good for driving in normal conditions.
I have a 997 GT3 and I live in central London. How many opportunities do I get to open it up near or around my home? None! Is it still a good feeling to jump in and drive to my Squash club in the evenings - yes. Are the positive comments which I get sometimes when out and about in it in central nice to hear? Sure. All part of the ownership experience. Every journey isn't going to be a flat out lap of the 'ring.
To actually enjoy the engine, and dynamics of the car I make time to take the car outside of central and hit some roads and areas which I have researched in advanced. Or I sometimes go on road trips: Wales, Europe, South Coast and others. This is where I really get to enjoy the car and extend it a bit.
To really push it, yes you need a track day. But this is really true for the majority of cars on the road. Anything with over 200bhp per ton (and many cars with less) really can't be opened up on the road consistently without risking getting points/fined. As much as you agree or disagree with the speed limits, they are there and you need to respect them or you could pay a large price.
Why does every journey need to be at 8,400rpm? Why do you need to be on the limit to enjoy the car? Maybe this comes with time and maturity, I'm not a new owner or trying to prove anything. I enjoy the little things about the car, the steering feedback, the notchy gear shift when cold, the wing in my rear view mirror. The sound of the car is still evocative even at tickover. These are all things to enjoy and revel in even when driving under 30mph.
I just think there is a balance here. If you don't enjoy the car driving at normal speeds, then maybe you need to dial yourself in to the details. Any Porsche still has attributes which you can enjoy and appreciate, either whilst stuck in traffic, or whilst applying a dap or oppo around Silverstone.
Certainly the character of the Mezger engine is something to relish, every time you fire it up. I have never driven a GT3 (I don't really want to, because I can extrapolate that it would be the start of an expensive quest) but know the rawness of the NA engine is even more visceral than the slightly muted turbo. I see how low speeds can be enjoyed - with the driver's window down!
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