Steering technique
Discussion
Right, doubt I'll make myself clear or any sense but I'll give it a go anyway.
I would like to know what steering technique you use on the track. I don't mean when everything is going straight but when things go really sideways.
Previously (and with great sucess) I 'follow the wheel' using the rotational methond but if things carry on, I allow the wheel to slide through my hands and then wind it back as the car straightens up (Don Palmer technique I think). (bare with me)
I then watched the Andy Walsh car limits video and he uses a technique where once the hands are crossed he removed the lower arm and puts it above the other arm.
So, if the back swings to the left, you will do half a rotation by crossing the arms and then bring the left hand over the right for another half a rotation. Then, as the car straightens the opposite is done, lifting the right hand over the left.
Am i talking crap?
I would like to know what steering technique you use on the track. I don't mean when everything is going straight but when things go really sideways.
Previously (and with great sucess) I 'follow the wheel' using the rotational methond but if things carry on, I allow the wheel to slide through my hands and then wind it back as the car straightens up (Don Palmer technique I think). (bare with me)
I then watched the Andy Walsh car limits video and he uses a technique where once the hands are crossed he removed the lower arm and puts it above the other arm.
So, if the back swings to the left, you will do half a rotation by crossing the arms and then bring the left hand over the right for another half a rotation. Then, as the car straightens the opposite is done, lifting the right hand over the left.
Am i talking crap?
I guess I use the Andy Walsh approach too. It isn't pretty, but this video shows how it works for me. At the end of the day, when you've got to get that lock on pronto you use whatever technique feels most comfortable, and worry about the finer points later.
Walsh tecnique supposedly uses less number of actions by the hands and allows you to know where the steering wheel is and thus by doing the opposite unwinding you automaticaly go by to straight ahead, whereas if you're shuffling it's easy to lose the sense of where you are with the wheel.
I've tried the Walsh thing at N.Weald and it was better what I was doing previously but doesn't feel terribly natural.
I've tried the Walsh thing at N.Weald and it was better what I was doing previously but doesn't feel terribly natural.
Thanks mt V8
I've just watched the video and compared it to a little clip I have here (first day at bedford) www.pistonheads.tv/video.asp?id=178&nr=1
and noted that my right hand does indeed come off the wheeel ready (or not) to go back over the top. Maybe I'm giving it too much thought?
I have heard that men would prefer to have their performance in bed criticised rather than their driving! (My partner is four months pregnant so I know I can do a lap, I've just got to imporve my technique!)
P.s. Lydden is across the road from me and does look terrifying in the wet! You're a brave man.
I've just watched the video and compared it to a little clip I have here (first day at bedford) www.pistonheads.tv/video.asp?id=178&nr=1
and noted that my right hand does indeed come off the wheeel ready (or not) to go back over the top. Maybe I'm giving it too much thought?
I have heard that men would prefer to have their performance in bed criticised rather than their driving! (My partner is four months pregnant so I know I can do a lap, I've just got to imporve my technique!)
P.s. Lydden is across the road from me and does look terrifying in the wet! You're a brave man.
I thought the Walsh technique was interesting, and I'd need some time to play with it to see what I think "in the real world" - but one concern I have is that after committing to the "second handful" I wonder how easy/instinctinve it is to back out if you find that the oversteer, or whatever, is under control and that you don't need any more lock, etc?
I guess like most techniques, even push-pull, if you are very practised and do it well then it can be just as effective as any other technique.
I guess like most techniques, even push-pull, if you are very practised and do it well then it can be just as effective as any other technique.
Out of interest, what video camera set up are you using with the inset picture as well. And mph on screen. I am looking at some remote camera lens at the moment with a dl data logger.
The driving and video looks good, i use the nick faure technique for 911 driving (let the car self centre, no driver input),as its not usually a problem applying the opposite lock, but how you unwind it and carry on, is where most 911 drivers have the challenge .Especially when the slide is not planned!!
The driving and video looks good, i use the nick faure technique for 911 driving (let the car self centre, no driver input),as its not usually a problem applying the opposite lock, but how you unwind it and carry on, is where most 911 drivers have the challenge .Especially when the slide is not planned!!
burzel said:
The driving and video looks good, i use the nick faure technique for 911 driving (let the car self centre, no driver input)
While I've done that on occasion too (more in my 3.2 Carrera days than recently), I don't think you could honestly claim to be fully in control of the car with your hands off the wheel and it spinning wildly.
Also, you may need to re-grab to re-apply some steering - you might hurt your fingers.
But like any technique, as I suggested above, it can be made to work with sufficient practise and skill.
I've had no problems using the 'nick faure technique', and my instructor who I used (Anthonny Dunn - iwannagofaster.com) thinks it's brilliant although a little scarey to watch but he agrees that if it works for me, use it.
It's just that I bought the Andy Walsh dvd and he explained how it should be done and I just assumed I'd been doing it wrong!
I'll have to learn the A W way though because using the 'Faure' technique does not work at all when driving my Impreza on the track and results in the mother of all tank slappers!
Regarding the video; I hired the equipment through Anthonny. I would like to purchase a similar system myself so I will post the supplier as soon as I find it.
Thanks all.
It's just that I bought the Andy Walsh dvd and he explained how it should be done and I just assumed I'd been doing it wrong!
I'll have to learn the A W way though because using the 'Faure' technique does not work at all when driving my Impreza on the track and results in the mother of all tank slappers!
Regarding the video; I hired the equipment through Anthonny. I would like to purchase a similar system myself so I will post the supplier as soon as I find it.
Thanks all.
I think if its spinning wildly, best thing is both feet in and minimise damage!
On a serious note, by letting go of the steering wheel, I mean a relaxed grip so the wheel can spin in your hands, and you can then just hold when the car has self centred .It can be in full control especially with the right foot.
On a serious note, by letting go of the steering wheel, I mean a relaxed grip so the wheel can spin in your hands, and you can then just hold when the car has self centred .It can be in full control especially with the right foot.
The bit I find most difficult and it's the bit that shows well in the lydden vid and it's something that does'nt seem to happen when you watch A.Walsh doing it is just how violently the wheel unlocks itself, it always feels to me as if at some point you have to let go of the wheel for a while or it would take your thumbs or fingers off. And it's that point thats so difficult to get back from neatly.
looks as if the chap in the lydden vids got it nicely not pretty as you say but you were'nt in the armco! and that's what matters.
looks as if the chap in the lydden vids got it nicely not pretty as you say but you were'nt in the armco! and that's what matters.
lemon yella rs said:
The bit I find most difficult and it's the bit that shows well in the lydden vid and it's something that does'nt seem to happen when you watch A.Walsh doing it is just how violently the wheel unlocks itself, it always feels to me as if at some point you have to let go of the wheel for a while or it would take your thumbs or fingers off.
Perhaps this is a 911 traction thing. I noticed at N. Weald that while giving a fair amount of throttle in oversteer the wheel pulled sraight regardless of my grip on it and once the car got to straight ahead again it felt as if it had been hit in the back by a bus, no fish tailing at all.
I'm sure this is something that will vary from car to car, because I've seen in car videos from other cars showing the steering almost winding opposite lock on and off by itself. Mine doesn't behave anything like that. Unless I positively wind the lock on and off, there's no way it would happen quickly enough to catch the car. Taking lock off in particular has to be done fast enough to stay ahead of the car, otherwise the rebound is really vicous. In conditions like this it's a fine line to get off the power and get the lock on fast enough to catch it, then get the power back on far enough to balance it while I start backing the lock off again. In the dry of course it's completely different, you can pile on the power and just a hint of opposite lock to balance it and it feels utterly predictable and forgiving. Different animal altogether in the wet though.
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