Dealer or Indie Advice - 996 C4
Discussion
Hello
Have very recently purchased my first Porsche - a 2 owner, 2003 C4 with 43,000 miles and a full Porsche main dealer history from Porsche Guildford, Aberdeen and Glasgow.
I see from its last inspection at Porsche Glasgow, it needs front/rear discs and pads, 2 rear tyres, coil packs and spark plugs... And that's probably just the beginning.
I'm friendly with a chap called Simon at Hillcrest in Henley and I'm very inclined to take the car to him...however, something tells me I should be maintaining the car's main dealer history.
Is there any sense in doing this from a resale perspective? I imagine the main dealer will be about 20% more expensive as well.
I've come from BMW where the main dealers are not to be trusted!
Cheers,
Nick
Have very recently purchased my first Porsche - a 2 owner, 2003 C4 with 43,000 miles and a full Porsche main dealer history from Porsche Guildford, Aberdeen and Glasgow.
I see from its last inspection at Porsche Glasgow, it needs front/rear discs and pads, 2 rear tyres, coil packs and spark plugs... And that's probably just the beginning.
I'm friendly with a chap called Simon at Hillcrest in Henley and I'm very inclined to take the car to him...however, something tells me I should be maintaining the car's main dealer history.
Is there any sense in doing this from a resale perspective? I imagine the main dealer will be about 20% more expensive as well.
I've come from BMW where the main dealers are not to be trusted!
Cheers,
Nick
IMO a 13 year old car will benefit from being taken to Indie for servicing, and most prospective buyers will too.
Seeing it allegedly needs so much work, I hope you got it cheap, therefore the 'value' of the car isn't really going to be affected by a Main dealer stamp, even in an insane world where buyers suddenly started to trust Porsche Franchised dealerships.
Having said all that, OPC Byfleet used to be an independent called Camtune - I don't know if their reputation has dropped since, but it might be worth getting a quote from them to compare if stamps concern you.
ps as an ex-BMW owner, you probably know that Main dealers always say you need new discs, even when you don't.
Seeing it allegedly needs so much work, I hope you got it cheap, therefore the 'value' of the car isn't really going to be affected by a Main dealer stamp, even in an insane world where buyers suddenly started to trust Porsche Franchised dealerships.
Having said all that, OPC Byfleet used to be an independent called Camtune - I don't know if their reputation has dropped since, but it might be worth getting a quote from them to compare if stamps concern you.
ps as an ex-BMW owner, you probably know that Main dealers always say you need new discs, even when you don't.
Well, it is 13 years old now so going to Porsche seems a bit bonkers. But, the mileage is low which may influence your thinking.
Changing the discs and pads on a 996 is so remarkably quick and simple to do the idea of paying a lot of money to anyone to do this is painful just to get a bit of paperwork. If you watched someone do this task (and had experience of your own of say changing discs and pads on a Ford Mondeo) you would see the utter simplicity that Porsche have designed into this task compared to other more normal cars.
As for the other items I can see why you would change the sparkplugs during a service, but I wouldn't change the coilpacks too unless there was an issue or they were truly ancient. Buying all six and changing them could be seen as excessive, but I know views will differ on this.
My own view is that I would never take a 13 year old 996 to an OPC for such routine work. Plus, you will be told you need new brakefluid and a thousand other things too. It would be interesting to see the bill for all new brakes and plugs/packs as a percentage of the vehicles value.
Changing the discs and pads on a 996 is so remarkably quick and simple to do the idea of paying a lot of money to anyone to do this is painful just to get a bit of paperwork. If you watched someone do this task (and had experience of your own of say changing discs and pads on a Ford Mondeo) you would see the utter simplicity that Porsche have designed into this task compared to other more normal cars.
As for the other items I can see why you would change the sparkplugs during a service, but I wouldn't change the coilpacks too unless there was an issue or they were truly ancient. Buying all six and changing them could be seen as excessive, but I know views will differ on this.
My own view is that I would never take a 13 year old 996 to an OPC for such routine work. Plus, you will be told you need new brakefluid and a thousand other things too. It would be interesting to see the bill for all new brakes and plugs/packs as a percentage of the vehicles value.
Out of curiosity I had a look at prices.
Design911 sell packages at £129 for front and £129 rear (discs and pads)
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_911_-cma81-cmo1...
With 6 coil packs being £139 the lot
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt259_265_-cma81-cmo...
All six spark plugs as a set for £57:
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod13442/Spark-Plug...
Therefore £450 total for all the parts from a reputable supplier, even cheaper if going Eurocarparts route instead (these are just service items).
In terms of fitting any of that, there are no special tools or techniques involved at all, and it is very far from being involved or complex in anyway. It is a morning of anyone who is even halfway competents time at the most.
Design911 sell packages at £129 for front and £129 rear (discs and pads)
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_911_-cma81-cmo1...
With 6 coil packs being £139 the lot
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt259_265_-cma81-cmo...
All six spark plugs as a set for £57:
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod13442/Spark-Plug...
Therefore £450 total for all the parts from a reputable supplier, even cheaper if going Eurocarparts route instead (these are just service items).
In terms of fitting any of that, there are no special tools or techniques involved at all, and it is very far from being involved or complex in anyway. It is a morning of anyone who is even halfway competents time at the most.
Personally I am not massively fussed if a car is serviced by a main dealer or an independent, but I always suggest a well known well respected independent. For me this is as good as a main dealer for resale. However if you want to keep the main dealer stamps in the service book have a main dealer do the basic service work only, thus retaining the main dealer stamps and havie a reputable independent doing any advisory work. Normally now a main dealer will give you a fixed price for this work anyway.
I also suggest it's worth getting a second opinion on works required as mentioned above as I am miss trustful of all brands of main dealers.
For piece of mind it might be worth thinking about a IMS bearing change when you need a clutch. We are having this done as we speak from northway now along with RMS and a major service. Exspensive, but takes most of the worry of ownership away and probable adds a bit of resale value too.
Good luck with the new car
I also suggest it's worth getting a second opinion on works required as mentioned above as I am miss trustful of all brands of main dealers.
For piece of mind it might be worth thinking about a IMS bearing change when you need a clutch. We are having this done as we speak from northway now along with RMS and a major service. Exspensive, but takes most of the worry of ownership away and probable adds a bit of resale value too.
Good luck with the new car
Fantastic advice as always guys. Thank you very much.
I'm going to give Simon at Hillcrest a call and get the car booked in for the work but continue to get the minor services done at my local OPC, Porsche East London to keep up the stamps.
Sounds like a decent compromise to me.
Will certainly do the IMS bearing along with discs, spark plugs and coil packs.
And a dreaded boroscope test......
I'm going to give Simon at Hillcrest a call and get the car booked in for the work but continue to get the minor services done at my local OPC, Porsche East London to keep up the stamps.
Sounds like a decent compromise to me.
Will certainly do the IMS bearing along with discs, spark plugs and coil packs.
And a dreaded boroscope test......
If you are going to consider doing any engine work, for this you do need a specialist, not an OPC to do the work.
Also I would be wary of some of the older so-called trusted indies - some of them seem to have been resting on the laurels gained ten or even twenty years ago, so look for the latest info on any you are considering.
Also I would be wary of some of the older so-called trusted indies - some of them seem to have been resting on the laurels gained ten or even twenty years ago, so look for the latest info on any you are considering.
So much BS around IMS - go to 911UK forums , they have a sticky on it. Lots of snake oil salesman and people that talk up the issue.
As for the servicing the advice above is good but it is worth noting that some OPC are doing very competitive fixed price servicing that often matches specialists.
As for the servicing the advice above is good but it is worth noting that some OPC are doing very competitive fixed price servicing that often matches specialists.
On my old 993 she has a full OPC history ...... However that's for just the servicing, all other work is done by a bloke who knows more (and owns two) about the older cars than any OPC (unles POPE was doing the work).
The fella I use works out of a glorified shed ..... And is very cheap. That's the kind of fella you need for the consumables. Just use OPC for the yearly stamp if you want to keep the history Porsche
The fella I use works out of a glorified shed ..... And is very cheap. That's the kind of fella you need for the consumables. Just use OPC for the yearly stamp if you want to keep the history Porsche
Having recently had some shockingly bad service at a main dealer I would be very selective about where you go. If the car is +13yrs old then I'd go to a well respected Indy and get better service and quality of work. As long as the Indy is well known then I doubt it will make any difference to car value and most people are quite happy with Indy stamps.
Thank you all. I am going indie without a doubt.
Am planning to speak to Simon at Hillcrest In Henley this week but would like to speak to a few other indies.
I've come across a PorscheTech close to where I live in NW3. Run by a guy called Andy..
Anyone have any experience of them?
Cheers
Nick
Am planning to speak to Simon at Hillcrest In Henley this week but would like to speak to a few other indies.
I've come across a PorscheTech close to where I live in NW3. Run by a guy called Andy..
Anyone have any experience of them?
Cheers
Nick
LotusAlfaV6bloke said:
Out of curiosity I had a look at prices.
Design911 sell packages at £129 for front and £129 rear (discs and pads)
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_911_-cma81-cmo1...
With 6 coil packs being £139 the lot
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt259_265_-cma81-cmo...
All six spark plugs as a set for £57:
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod13442/Spark-Plug...
Therefore £450 total for all the parts from a reputable supplier, even cheaper if going Eurocarparts route instead (these are just service items).
In terms of fitting any of that, there are no special tools or techniques involved at all, and it is very far from being involved or complex in anyway. It is a morning of anyone who is even halfway competents time at the most.
Thanks for providing links to these parts. I have compared these to Porsche original parts and they are less than half the price! What are your views on using Porsche parts ?Design911 sell packages at £129 for front and £129 rear (discs and pads)
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_911_-cma81-cmo1...
With 6 coil packs being £139 the lot
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt259_265_-cma81-cmo...
All six spark plugs as a set for £57:
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod13442/Spark-Plug...
Therefore £450 total for all the parts from a reputable supplier, even cheaper if going Eurocarparts route instead (these are just service items).
In terms of fitting any of that, there are no special tools or techniques involved at all, and it is very far from being involved or complex in anyway. It is a morning of anyone who is even halfway competents time at the most.
Edited by nickpan on Monday 23 May 07:04
There really isn't such a thing as a Porsche part - there are parts suppliers who sell their products to Porsche and package them in Porsche boxes. In most cases they also supply the same parts in their own boxes, usually these cost a fair bit less.
When I last did the discs and pads on one of my cars, the Porsche pads which came out (factory fitted from new) were identical to the ones I had bought from Euro Car Parts (Pagid in this case), including the manufacturer's logo and part numbers.
The only difference was the price.
I did the front discs and pads, plus wear sensors (the light came on, 2 years and 12,000 miles after the OPC said I needed new ones) and the rear discs and pads, for less than the OPC wanted just for the fronts.
When I last did the discs and pads on one of my cars, the Porsche pads which came out (factory fitted from new) were identical to the ones I had bought from Euro Car Parts (Pagid in this case), including the manufacturer's logo and part numbers.
The only difference was the price.
I did the front discs and pads, plus wear sensors (the light came on, 2 years and 12,000 miles after the OPC said I needed new ones) and the rear discs and pads, for less than the OPC wanted just for the fronts.
pete.g said:
There really isn't such a thing as a Porsche part - there are parts suppliers who sell their products to Porsche and package them in Porsche boxes. In most cases they also supply the same parts in their own boxes, usually these cost a fair bit less.
When I last did the discs and pads on one of my cars, the Porsche pads which came out (factory fitted from new) were identical to the ones I had bought from Euro Car Parts (Pagid in this case), including the manufacturer's logo and part numbers.
The only difference was the price.
I did the front discs and pads, plus wear sensors (the light came on, 2 years and 12,000 miles after the OPC said I needed new ones) and the rear discs and pads, for less than the OPC wanted just for the fronts.
Very helpful - thanks.When I last did the discs and pads on one of my cars, the Porsche pads which came out (factory fitted from new) were identical to the ones I had bought from Euro Car Parts (Pagid in this case), including the manufacturer's logo and part numbers.
The only difference was the price.
I did the front discs and pads, plus wear sensors (the light came on, 2 years and 12,000 miles after the OPC said I needed new ones) and the rear discs and pads, for less than the OPC wanted just for the fronts.
Yep, I gave Design911 prices above but they can be cheaper on "sale days" or with a discount code. Others are even cheaper still.
Some people will want the "comfort" of Porsche parts in Porsche boxes (that they will never even see as the technician throws them in the workshop bin) as the "pride" of those purchases are part of the wider ownership experience for them, if that makes sense. That is fair enough.
But, there is no science to brake discs if just using as a daily road car, with pads being a more subjective subject but they are still "just pads".
Some people will want the "comfort" of Porsche parts in Porsche boxes (that they will never even see as the technician throws them in the workshop bin) as the "pride" of those purchases are part of the wider ownership experience for them, if that makes sense. That is fair enough.
But, there is no science to brake discs if just using as a daily road car, with pads being a more subjective subject but they are still "just pads".
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