So that button on Porkers

[Dave 4000]

I caught on telly last night (German) a programme about some rich kid driving a new Porker cabriolet, when he said the cars great and it's got this button on the dash that makes it louder. Shirley this is not the sole purpose of this button, if it is I'm sorry but my estimation of the fine machinery from Stuttgart will have taken a shape nose dive. While I obviously seen the cars on the road I have not yet been able to....err exploit one of these car that have the engine in the @rse.

If there is anyone out there (on pistonheads there normally is) who could explain the "little button" I would appreciate it.

Thanks



Oh and another thing, why did Ferdinand Porsche decide that sticking the engine in the wrong place was such a good idea. Don't get me wrong I know Porsche have proven their cars do be very successful, but when he designed the Beetle why put the engine in the back.

In terms of efficiency putting the engine in the front for cooling and air intake must be better?

Putting the extra weight of an engine over the drive wheels obviously has it's benefits, but the original Beetle was never a performance car as it was supposed to be the car of a nation one that most people could afford and so kick start the German economy after the war. So performance gains were probably not high on the list.

Maintenance: It's got to be a bl00dy pain in the @rse to work on?

Different? certainly, but so was owning a car back then.


So why?


S'all for now thanks

Dave

[steve 944t]

Or the other way of looking at it, the button makes it quieter in case you want to keep the lentilists happy!
As for the engine in the back, well at least they realized their mistake and put it in the right place for the 944!

[nel]

On modern Porsches there is the option of a switchable sports exhaust. No real power gain involved, just more noise as the man said. Why? Well I suppose it has the edge on a permanently noisy car as you can "go quiet" to creep past your neighbours' houses, then "go loud" to wake up every other bugger!

[verysideways]

FP was one of the pioneers of this new fangled thing called "aerodynamics", and being a proper engineer meant he grasped the fact that simple and reliable often go hand in hand.

He worked out that FWD would be expensive and complicated, so wanted to stick to a RWD set up. Keeping the engine/trans close together would retain simplicity. Putting the whole lot together would mean not wasting space with propshafts and the like.

To get the airflow, and package the drivetrain for maximum space efficiency, there was only one solution... put the engine in the back.

You have to remember, an air-cooled, all-alloy engine in the back of a car was about as revolutionary as you could imagine 50 years ago. Lightweight and bullet-proof.

VS

[b17nns]

also results in good traction!

[Dave 4000]

Ahh, but history shows us that the front engined car is overall better (for want of a better word) whether it's better in terms of production, maintanance or driveability etc. He was obviously a great engineer and at that time he would have had his pick of the best that Germany had to offer, would it have not been equally revolutionary to design the first water cooled front engine/drive?


By the way I'm not on a wind up, just genuinely interested in a design concept that shouldn't be that good but in practice is good enough to become an icon

[Dave 4000]

b17nns said:

also results in good traction!

Now it's a bonus for the Porsche, but was it for the first Beetle?

[M@H]

Following on from the comment about the FWD option being an expensive one, the main purpose of the WV was to be the "peoples car" and a part of the deisgn brief was that it would take 4 people in comfort. Once the decision to go RWD was taken, there would have been really quite an issue to make a small 4 seater car Mid engined..

The beetles Rear engined design is an excellent solution to the problem/concept they were trying to fulfil, that being to build an affordable car for the masses, not to design a car for ultimate handling capabilities (although in fairness its not at all bad)

Cheers
Matt

[M@H]

Dave 4000 said:

He was obviously a great engineer and at that time he would have had his pick of the best that Germany had to offer, would it have not been equally revolutionary to design the first water cooled front engine/drive?

That would have been expensive... also remember that this engine didn't just go into cars, it made an excellent small aeroplane engine due to its lightweight aircooled design.

Cheers
Matt

[verysideways]

M@H



VS

[Wintermute]

Isn't it the case that the rear-engine beetle and early 911s are a doddle to maintain?

Something like you can jack the rear of the car up and just wheel the whole rear assembly out?

[verysideways]

Wintermute said:

Something like you can jack the rear of the car up and just wheel the whole rear assembly out?

My brother-in-law changed the engine on his VW T2 bus back in the 70's on the hard shoulder of the M1, in an hour and a half!

Him and his mate had just been to buy another engine because he knew his had seen better days! They didn't have many tools, nor did they have a jack, so they put the engine on bricks and moved the bus off it!

VS

[M@H]

Wintermute said:

Isn't it the case that the rear-engine beetle and early 911s are a doddle to maintain? Something like you can jack the rear of the car up and just wheel the whole rear assembly out?

err nearly.. you undo the four bolts that hold the engine to the transmission and drop the engine out of the bottom (onto a trolley jack), and lift or jack the body over it...(or variations on that theme) it took me about an hour last time I did one.

Cheers
Matt

[M@H]

verysideways said:

My brother-in-law changed the engine on his VW T2 bus back in the 70's on the hard shoulder of the M1, in an hour and a half! ..... they put the engine on bricks and moved the bus off it! VS

..did they leave it there on the hard shoulder in the end..?



>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 9th March 15:47

[sadako]

No problems with my '2s engine, I'd have a mid engine again. Cools easily enough with the side scoop, easy-ish to get at. Watercooling system is a little odd but works fine if properly maintained.

[oddman]

Dad tells me they used to do Beetle engine 'changing' races at VW meets in 60s and 70s - Drive up a short course, remove engine refit it, drive back. Took minutes for skilled spanner man apparently.

Someone here must remeber this??

T

[deeen]

Dave 4000 said:

b17nns said: also results in good traction! Now it's a bonus for the Porsche, but was it for the first Beetle?

Yes, on unmade roads, ice and snow, in fields etc.

[paultje]

Mr Porsche was also responsible for lots of other designs as well like the Auto-Union & Mercedes GP cars of the era. The Auto-Unions won virtually everything in their day, and the engine was....in the back!! He also designed german WW2 tanks..but we don't talk about that!!

[deeen]

Dave 4000 said:

Ahh, but history shows us that the front engined car is overall better (for want of a better word) whether it's better in terms of production, maintanance or driveability etc. He was obviously a great engineer and at that time he would have had his pick of the best that Germany had to offer, would it have not been equally revolutionary to design the first water cooled front engine/drive?

You mean the first Beetle could have been a 2CV?

[M@H]

oddman said:

Dad tells me they used to do Beetle engine 'changing' races at VW meets in 60s and 70s - Drive up a short course, remove engine refit it, drive back. Took minutes for skilled spanner man apparently. Someone here must remeber this?? T

They still do it today.. Teams of four people IIRC.. the record is two and a bit minutes for a removal and refit, from memory.

Matt.