GT3/4 - Cup2 or Supersport tyres for all-round use?
Discussion
For those who use their GT cars through the year and in the wet, with a few track days thrown in, do you use Cup2 tyres and how do you find them? Or is the supersport a better alternative for year round use?
I'm in the southeast so I'm not talking about regular driving on ice/snow/salt, but I want the car to be useable in most other conditions. For example, Saturday was spent on a soaking wet track day all day, followed by a 2 hour drive on wet motorways to get home. Are Cup2s up to that?
I have a 997.1 GT3 which is due some new tyres soon and as much as I want to try Cup2s, I am wondering how much of a compromise it will be when it's wet and cold.
I'd be interested to hear if any GT4 owners are planning on tyre changes for the colder months.
I'm in the southeast so I'm not talking about regular driving on ice/snow/salt, but I want the car to be useable in most other conditions. For example, Saturday was spent on a soaking wet track day all day, followed by a 2 hour drive on wet motorways to get home. Are Cup2s up to that?
I have a 997.1 GT3 which is due some new tyres soon and as much as I want to try Cup2s, I am wondering how much of a compromise it will be when it's wet and cold.
I'd be interested to hear if any GT4 owners are planning on tyre changes for the colder months.
On a GT3 or GT4 I would have two sets of wheels - one with Michelin Cups for track use (my experience with the Dunlops was very disappointing), and the other with road tyres for day-to-day use, especially in winter - in my case Goodyear Eagle F1s - quieter, more compliant, and excellent in the wet.
braddo said:
For those who use their GT cars through the year and in the wet, with a few track days thrown in, do you use Cup2 tyres and how do you find them? Or is the supersport a better alternative for year round use?
I'm in the southeast so I'm not talking about regular driving on ice/snow/salt, but I want the car to be useable in most other conditions. For example, Saturday was spent on a soaking wet track day all day, followed by a 2 hour drive on wet motorways to get home. Are Cup2s up to that?
I have a 997.1 GT3 which is due some new tyres soon and as much as I want to try Cup2s, I am wondering how much of a compromise it will be when it's wet and cold.
I'd be interested to hear if any GT4 owners are planning on tyre changes for the colder months.
I had a similar decision to make last year (996.2 GT3) and ended up going with the Supersports. Having come from the PS2's you can tell the difference between the two and when they was virtually new, didnt have any trouble with standing water. However, ive found that the rear tends to slip out abit more now or it gives that feeling it does with softer sidewalls. Which im not a fan of so will be trying out the Cup2's next time. I use mine all year round as well.I'm in the southeast so I'm not talking about regular driving on ice/snow/salt, but I want the car to be useable in most other conditions. For example, Saturday was spent on a soaking wet track day all day, followed by a 2 hour drive on wet motorways to get home. Are Cup2s up to that?
I have a 997.1 GT3 which is due some new tyres soon and as much as I want to try Cup2s, I am wondering how much of a compromise it will be when it's wet and cold.
I'd be interested to hear if any GT4 owners are planning on tyre changes for the colder months.
I don't have a GT but my experience with Cup2s is that they are worse than a regular PS2 when there is puddles and standing water, when the temps is below circa 6 deg. When it is both cold and wet you have to rein it in. If you are commuting early morning or wanting to get out early Sunday morning for a clear roads hoon, then most likely you are better off with a Supersport.
I run two of my cars on Cup2 tyres all year. However, I do think about when I'm using them and if it's pouring, icy and/or I have a long/dull drive then I take something else. Cup2s are better than you imagine in the damp and wet, but clearly it's no rain tyre. Changing wheels is a pain, so it manifests itself in me using the Cup2 shod vehicles less in the darker months, but that's fine with me.
It absolutely can be done all year round on Cup2s; I've come back from Spa in freezing sleet on well worn Cups, but it's not an experience I'd like to repeat daily. You need to think hard in the trickier conditions, especially as the tyres get worn. For these reasons, and given you might just be popping to shops/in-laws/school run, it's easier to have a different vehicle or more middle of the road tyres for those occasions when you don't want to be "on it", both dynamically and mentally.
It absolutely can be done all year round on Cup2s; I've come back from Spa in freezing sleet on well worn Cups, but it's not an experience I'd like to repeat daily. You need to think hard in the trickier conditions, especially as the tyres get worn. For these reasons, and given you might just be popping to shops/in-laws/school run, it's easier to have a different vehicle or more middle of the road tyres for those occasions when you don't want to be "on it", both dynamically and mentally.
I ran Supersports on my DD 997 GT2 which runs 900+NM/800hp and they were pretty good. Swapped to Cup 2s and they had a lot more grip in the dry and not noticeably worse in the wet.
I had to put two new rears on recently and pondered putting on SS for the winter but went with Cup 2s again. The way I see it when its cold and wet and you're putting anything over ~450NM through the rear you simply have to be careful and drive to the conditions, the difference between SS and Cup 2 in poor conditions is quite marginal and probably zero at the 65mph self imposed limit I use if its heavy rain and/or v cold + slightly wet.
FWIW there is a SS replacement coming out early next year the Sport 4 (or SS 4 can't remember) which is supposed to be even closer to the Cup 2 preformance but year roundable..... I still think I'd use the Cup 2 they are the best tyre available in the world currently IMHO.
One further interesting tidbit, according to the testing the Cup 2 in 325/30 X 19 is a quieter tyre than the same sized SS ! - quiet -
I had to put two new rears on recently and pondered putting on SS for the winter but went with Cup 2s again. The way I see it when its cold and wet and you're putting anything over ~450NM through the rear you simply have to be careful and drive to the conditions, the difference between SS and Cup 2 in poor conditions is quite marginal and probably zero at the 65mph self imposed limit I use if its heavy rain and/or v cold + slightly wet.
FWIW there is a SS replacement coming out early next year the Sport 4 (or SS 4 can't remember) which is supposed to be even closer to the Cup 2 preformance but year roundable..... I still think I'd use the Cup 2 they are the best tyre available in the world currently IMHO.
One further interesting tidbit, according to the testing the Cup 2 in 325/30 X 19 is a quieter tyre than the same sized SS ! - quiet -
braddo said:
For those who use their GT cars through the year and in the wet, with a few track days thrown in, do you use Cup2 tyres and how do you find them? Or is the supersport a better alternative for year round use?
I'm in the southeast so I'm not talking about regular driving on ice/snow/salt, but I want the car to be useable in most other conditions. For example, Saturday was spent on a soaking wet track day all day, followed by a 2 hour drive on wet motorways to get home. Are Cup2s up to that?
I have a 997.1 GT3 which is due some new tyres soon and as much as I want to try Cup2s, I am wondering how much of a compromise it will be when it's wet and cold.
I'd be interested to hear if any GT4 owners are planning on tyre changes for the colder months.
I was at Oulton on Friday in a 997.2GT3 on Cup 2 with 7k miles wear behind them. The track was cold and damp, especially in the morning and care was needed but I still had a good day out. The same car/tyre combination did a 2k mile euro trip in the summer when we had a deluge for the first day through the Alps and not a cloud in the sky the following day.I'm in the southeast so I'm not talking about regular driving on ice/snow/salt, but I want the car to be useable in most other conditions. For example, Saturday was spent on a soaking wet track day all day, followed by a 2 hour drive on wet motorways to get home. Are Cup2s up to that?
I have a 997.1 GT3 which is due some new tyres soon and as much as I want to try Cup2s, I am wondering how much of a compromise it will be when it's wet and cold.
I'd be interested to hear if any GT4 owners are planning on tyre changes for the colder months.
Warranty considerations preclude SS so I will probably fit a new set of Cup 2 in the Spring and continue to adjust driving style to suit the conditions.
I have a 997.1 GT3 with Porsche N0 Cup 2s all round. No issues with wet driving, just don't drive like an idiot. They don't like cold weather, but then I don't use the car in winter.
I've tried Cup 2s vs Supersports on other cars and in every case the car feels more alive, connected and faithful on the Cup 2s. It's what a GT3 deserves.
I've tried Cup 2s vs Supersports on other cars and in every case the car feels more alive, connected and faithful on the Cup 2s. It's what a GT3 deserves.
For everyday use I'd go with SuperSports --- but they will supposedly be replaced with PS4's at some stage.
In terms of outright grip, the GT4 was showing comfortably over 1.25g on the PSS -- and 1.35g on Cup2's.
On Cup2's we've maxed the grip in the compression at the bottom of EauRouge at a little above 1.50g --- for context.
The other thing is that there is more feel in the sidewall of PSS --- which I find a big help in the wet.
As it happens I have two sets of wheels and have both. The car has PSS on at the moment ...
My 2p !
In terms of outright grip, the GT4 was showing comfortably over 1.25g on the PSS -- and 1.35g on Cup2's.
On Cup2's we've maxed the grip in the compression at the bottom of EauRouge at a little above 1.50g --- for context.
The other thing is that there is more feel in the sidewall of PSS --- which I find a big help in the wet.
As it happens I have two sets of wheels and have both. The car has PSS on at the moment ...
My 2p !
braddo said:
Thanks all. I think I'm leaning towards the Cup2s and accepting a slight compromise of more caution when it's very wet or cold+wet.
Do the Cups at least show some progression when they're lacking in grip in the cold?
If it's wet they've fine, if it's cold and dry they're fine, if it's cold and wet then can be a bit spiky.Do the Cups at least show some progression when they're lacking in grip in the cold?
jimmyslr said:
I run two of my cars on Cup2 tyres all year. However, I do think about when I'm using them and if it's pouring, icy and/or I have a long/dull drive then I take something else. Cup2s are better than you imagine in the damp and wet, but clearly it's no rain tyre. Changing wheels is a pain, so it manifests itself in me using the Cup2 shod vehicles less in the darker months, but that's fine with me.
It absolutely can be done all year round on Cup2s; I've come back from Spa in freezing sleet on well worn Cups, but it's not an experience I'd like to repeat daily. You need to think hard in the trickier conditions, especially as the tyres get worn. For these reasons, and given you might just be popping to shops/in-laws/school run, it's easier to have a different vehicle or more middle of the road tyres for those occasions when you don't want to be "on it", both dynamically and mentally.
Fully agree all points.It absolutely can be done all year round on Cup2s; I've come back from Spa in freezing sleet on well worn Cups, but it's not an experience I'd like to repeat daily. You need to think hard in the trickier conditions, especially as the tyres get worn. For these reasons, and given you might just be popping to shops/in-laws/school run, it's easier to have a different vehicle or more middle of the road tyres for those occasions when you don't want to be "on it", both dynamically and mentally.
I've used SS all year round in the southeast on an F10 M5 and frankly was not hugely impressed, although to be fair the M5 doesn't have great traction in the wet regardless of tyre choice. I've raced a GT3 on Cup 2s in the wet and was impressed at the level of lateral grip. Not sure how it would fare at low temps, though. As jimmy says, you just need to think harder.
One note of caution: the Cup2 tread has a tendency to last a surprisingly long time. This can give the false impression of longevity as heat-cycling under track usage will kill the tyre before the tread goes.
Also make sure you store them properly if the car is parked up over winter. Mine have gone square since the last race in August!
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