Mileage Sensitivity
Discussion
I apologise in advance for this topic - please feel free to ignore if you despise this subject! 
I am thinking out loud whilst also being curious what other owners like me (guys who have gone from 'normal' cars into their first Porsche) thought when they found themselves in this position.
Now, I get that essentially all cars are mileage sensitive, but I would say that my Cayman GTS is the first car I have owned that has made me actually think about the mileage I put on the car...and I am not sure how I feel about it.
My GTS is a 2014 model and currently has 5,500m on it. In my book that's bugger all - and not the reason I bought it, btw! I bought it to replace my daily driver Audi S3, but already I am starting to think I have made a mistake - I'm starting to think twice about the mileage I am going to put on it as a commuter vehicle and how that could potentially rule out any single-hit trips I may want to do.
Note - I had my Audi from new and traded it in at just under 2 years old with 14,400m on it - so my annual mileage is not massive. Every car I own is cared for to the highest standard and serviced at a main dealer etc. etc. The Audi was like a brand new car when I traded it in, for example.
So using the average of (say) 7,500 miles a year, I could run the car for 2 years and look to change it as a c.5-year-old car with 20-21k miles on. Excluding any 1k hits for road trips, for example (not planned anything yet, so pure speculation).
I think the mistake I have potentially made, is reading up on the GTS as much as I did and every thread, article and video mentioning how they are going to be the 'one to have' with residuals blah blah blah. Had I bought a new 718S, I'm not sure I would give a s
t, to be fair!
So here is the rub - do I buy a 2nd (well, 4th for the household but a 1958 Beetle is hardly a sensible candidate for the daily commute and my wife keeps such a grip on her Q5 keys, I think she might very well divorce me and marry that instead!) car that I split my annual mileage with in order to keep the miles on the Porsche down (and reduce the chance of car park dings etc) or realistically are the kind of miles I am going to put on as a daily, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme??
Sorry for the crystal ball style mulling - of all the cars I have owned this is the first that has made me think like this which is an interesting part of ownership that I didn't really prepare for when I was getting all 'girly excited' about buying that coveted Porsche!
(PS. Yes, I get that buying and running another vehicle will negate any money 'saved' on the other side of things...)
I am thinking out loud whilst also being curious what other owners like me (guys who have gone from 'normal' cars into their first Porsche) thought when they found themselves in this position.Now, I get that essentially all cars are mileage sensitive, but I would say that my Cayman GTS is the first car I have owned that has made me actually think about the mileage I put on the car...and I am not sure how I feel about it.
My GTS is a 2014 model and currently has 5,500m on it. In my book that's bugger all - and not the reason I bought it, btw! I bought it to replace my daily driver Audi S3, but already I am starting to think I have made a mistake - I'm starting to think twice about the mileage I am going to put on it as a commuter vehicle and how that could potentially rule out any single-hit trips I may want to do.
Note - I had my Audi from new and traded it in at just under 2 years old with 14,400m on it - so my annual mileage is not massive. Every car I own is cared for to the highest standard and serviced at a main dealer etc. etc. The Audi was like a brand new car when I traded it in, for example.
So using the average of (say) 7,500 miles a year, I could run the car for 2 years and look to change it as a c.5-year-old car with 20-21k miles on. Excluding any 1k hits for road trips, for example (not planned anything yet, so pure speculation).
I think the mistake I have potentially made, is reading up on the GTS as much as I did and every thread, article and video mentioning how they are going to be the 'one to have' with residuals blah blah blah. Had I bought a new 718S, I'm not sure I would give a s
t, to be fair!So here is the rub - do I buy a 2nd (well, 4th for the household but a 1958 Beetle is hardly a sensible candidate for the daily commute and my wife keeps such a grip on her Q5 keys, I think she might very well divorce me and marry that instead!) car that I split my annual mileage with in order to keep the miles on the Porsche down (and reduce the chance of car park dings etc) or realistically are the kind of miles I am going to put on as a daily, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme??
Sorry for the crystal ball style mulling - of all the cars I have owned this is the first that has made me think like this which is an interesting part of ownership that I didn't really prepare for when I was getting all 'girly excited' about buying that coveted Porsche!
(PS. Yes, I get that buying and running another vehicle will negate any money 'saved' on the other side of things...)
Think it is a very personal thing. My Cayenne has 200,000km on it and will have 250 when the new one arrives in 2018. The rarer cars vary a bit. My 2008 RS has 35,000km on it ,I sold the 2010 RS with 10,500 km on it and the 2016 RS already has10,000 km on it which took four years on the 2010 car. Oddly I have a 2005 Smart with 20,000km and a 2003 SL500 with 40,000km but a 2012 Jeep Wrangler with 55,000 km.
I only really think about the RS mileage if I am doing a really long run to a track day or a meet. Next year will do an event in Washington state which is maybe a 9,000km round trip and for those type of events I throw the car on a trailer and tow it , which is partly how I have a 200,000km Cayenne .
I only really think about the RS mileage if I am doing a really long run to a track day or a meet. Next year will do an event in Washington state which is maybe a 9,000km round trip and for those type of events I throw the car on a trailer and tow it , which is partly how I have a 200,000km Cayenne .
Hugo911 said:
"Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend." -Jim Glickenhaus (Ferrari Collector)
Though I'm sure I've committed some kind of sin mentioning the Italian brand on a Porsche forum!
One could argue that if you are in a position to 'collect Ferraris', residual value is not something you care about. Though I'm sure I've committed some kind of sin mentioning the Italian brand on a Porsche forum!
I think what I'm trying to avoid is a couple of years down the line having a dealer tell me that I've s
t the bed by using it and as a result it's worth 50p and a packet of crisps because nobody will want one with 20k+ miles on it. I'd love to 'get on and use it', but I am also not planning on shooting myself in the foot by doing so. Whilst I am comfortable with the potential total cost of ownership, I'm most certainly NOT in the position to collect Ferraris!
PhantomPH said:
I apologise in advance for this topic - please feel free to ignore if you despise this subject! I am thinking out loud whilst also being curious what other owners like me (guys who have gone from 'normal' cars into their first Porsche) thought when they found themselves in this position.
Now, I get that essentially all cars are mileage sensitive, but I would say that my Cayman GTS is the first car I have owned that has made me actually think about the mileage I put on the car...and I am not sure how I feel about it.
My GTS is a 2014 model and currently has 5,500m on it. In my book that's bugger all - and not the reason I bought it, btw! I bought it to replace my daily driver Audi S3, but already I am starting to think I have made a mistake - I'm starting to think twice about the mileage I am going to put on it as a commuter vehicle and how that could potentially rule out any single-hit trips I may want to do.
Note - I had my Audi from new and traded it in at just under 2 years old with 14,400m on it - so my annual mileage is not massive. Every car I own is cared for to the highest standard and serviced at a main dealer etc. etc. The Audi was like a brand new car when I traded it in, for example.
So using the average of (say) 7,500 miles a year, I could run the car for 2 years and look to change it as a c.5-year-old car with 20-21k miles on. Excluding any 1k hits for road trips, for example (not planned anything yet, so pure speculation).
I think the mistake I have potentially made, is reading up on the GTS as much as I did and every thread, article and video mentioning how they are going to be the 'one to have' with residuals blah blah blah. Had I bought a new 718S, I'm not sure I would give a st, to be fair!
So here is the rub - do I buy a 2nd (well, 4th for the household but a 1958 Beetle is hardly a sensible candidate for the daily commute and my wife keeps such a grip on her Q5 keys, I think she might very well divorce me and marry that instead!) car that I split my annual mileage with in order to keep the miles on the Porsche down (and reduce the chance of car park dings etc) or realistically are the kind of miles I am going to put on as a daily, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme??
Sorry for the crystal ball style mulling - of all the cars I have owned this is the first that has made me think like this which is an interesting part of ownership that I didn't really prepare for when I was getting all 'girly excited' about buying that coveted Porsche!
(PS. Yes, I get that buying and running another vehicle will negate any money 'saved' on the other side of things...)
Whilst I'm sure the next owner will appreciate the low miles, immaculate service history and pristine condition I am thinking out loud whilst also being curious what other owners like me (guys who have gone from 'normal' cars into their first Porsche) thought when they found themselves in this position.Now, I get that essentially all cars are mileage sensitive, but I would say that my Cayman GTS is the first car I have owned that has made me actually think about the mileage I put on the car...and I am not sure how I feel about it.
My GTS is a 2014 model and currently has 5,500m on it. In my book that's bugger all - and not the reason I bought it, btw! I bought it to replace my daily driver Audi S3, but already I am starting to think I have made a mistake - I'm starting to think twice about the mileage I am going to put on it as a commuter vehicle and how that could potentially rule out any single-hit trips I may want to do.
Note - I had my Audi from new and traded it in at just under 2 years old with 14,400m on it - so my annual mileage is not massive. Every car I own is cared for to the highest standard and serviced at a main dealer etc. etc. The Audi was like a brand new car when I traded it in, for example.
So using the average of (say) 7,500 miles a year, I could run the car for 2 years and look to change it as a c.5-year-old car with 20-21k miles on. Excluding any 1k hits for road trips, for example (not planned anything yet, so pure speculation).
I think the mistake I have potentially made, is reading up on the GTS as much as I did and every thread, article and video mentioning how they are going to be the 'one to have' with residuals blah blah blah. Had I bought a new 718S, I'm not sure I would give a s
t, to be fair!So here is the rub - do I buy a 2nd (well, 4th for the household but a 1958 Beetle is hardly a sensible candidate for the daily commute and my wife keeps such a grip on her Q5 keys, I think she might very well divorce me and marry that instead!) car that I split my annual mileage with in order to keep the miles on the Porsche down (and reduce the chance of car park dings etc) or realistically are the kind of miles I am going to put on as a daily, pretty insignificant in the grand scheme??
Sorry for the crystal ball style mulling - of all the cars I have owned this is the first that has made me think like this which is an interesting part of ownership that I didn't really prepare for when I was getting all 'girly excited' about buying that coveted Porsche!
(PS. Yes, I get that buying and running another vehicle will negate any money 'saved' on the other side of things...)
you hardly appear to be enjoying what was an expensive indulgence originally. Use it, enjoy it and if it ends up with a few stonechips and a stack of miles on it, so be it. It is after all a car, NOT a work of art. I've owned a couple of garage queen Porsches, I found them the most depressing, oppressive and dull ownership propositions.Look at this way, which will give you the most pleasure ? Handing over a car to the next owner that you've kept immaculately but not really used or enjoyed (and yes, I DO kind of get the sense of pride in handing a pristine car over to its new owner) or handing over a car that you've driven a lot, enjoyed using and experienced some truly wonderful journeys/scenery/people in the process. Personally I'd take the memories any day.
I've had some truly wonderful (and rarish) 911's over the past 15 years (see here for the full list) :
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I have NO regrets at having used any of them in all weathers and occasionally as commuting cars, all were used regularly without fear of putting miles/stonechips on them (the two exceptions being the 993 RS and the yellow 964 RS)
I have many wonderful and varied memories of the time spend behind the wheels of all of them. The yellow RS was a concourse car by the time it was finished, and whilst it was a thing of beauty, and its condition a source of pride (and wonderment to others), its ownership was chore. And the most enjoyable experience was driving it for the photoshoot when the time came to sell it ! !
Using the GTS as a daily doesn't mean you have to mistreat it or not be diligent about where you leave it, but it was built for driver enjoyment, so enjoy it ! ! Whether it end uo with 20k miles or 50k miles really doesn't matter
Slippydiff said:
Using the GTS as a daily doesn't mean you have to mistreat it or not be diligent about where you leave it, but it was built for driver enjoyment, so enjoy it ! ! Whether it end uo with 20k miles or 50k miles really doesn't matter
Hugely helpful reply, thank you! (And stunning list of cars, btw!). I think I am really just thinking out loud with (mostly) helpful other owners. I bought the car I wanted in the spec I wanted and now I have it I think I am just checking that I have not wandered accidentally into the 'I see you have dared to drive your car...that's royally f'ed you over!' territory by buying the GTS instead of the regular S.It's kinda like I'm having the irrational buyer's panic AFTER I've bought instead of before.
I think the answer depends on how much you value your enjoyment vs say the improved residual value. If your car has done say 15k miles in two years time vs 25k miles I don't think you're talking many thousands of pounds difference in trade-in value...maybe £2k or £3k absolute tops. The spec of your car will matter much more IMHO.
Also if your intention is to likely trade in your GTS to a dealer against another whilst they'll very happily take your car in because its a great spec and low mileage whether you'll actually get any the extra £2k or £3k for it is debatable. If you're willing to sell your car yourself or take time and leave the car SoR then you can capture some of the value. Bloke I work with is currently selling his low mileage two year old Conti GT...I can tell you he's getting bugger all value for the fact it's only done 6k miles in two years. He's been trying to sell it for a month...he can get a bid very easily but not a good one...he's getting bid what you would for a car that has done say 15k miles despite the fact they'll ask a bit more for it.
I'd drive it and enjoy it!
Also if your intention is to likely trade in your GTS to a dealer against another whilst they'll very happily take your car in because its a great spec and low mileage whether you'll actually get any the extra £2k or £3k for it is debatable. If you're willing to sell your car yourself or take time and leave the car SoR then you can capture some of the value. Bloke I work with is currently selling his low mileage two year old Conti GT...I can tell you he's getting bugger all value for the fact it's only done 6k miles in two years. He's been trying to sell it for a month...he can get a bid very easily but not a good one...he's getting bid what you would for a car that has done say 15k miles despite the fact they'll ask a bit more for it.
I'd drive it and enjoy it!
I imagine the Conti GT has shed a chunk on a good day. Hope he gets what he's after.
The other things are not mutually exclusive, tho. I can gain pleasure from owning, driving AND residuals. It's the balance.
Please don't think that I am only planning on doing 20 miles and then rubbing it down with a mink fur. I'm really thinking about the difference between doing c.8k per annum or using it more like a second car and reducing that to c.4k by picking up a cheap additional vehicle.
In truth, I'm not even really thinking that now - I just need to type out the thoughts so I could realise I was being fking stupid.
The other things are not mutually exclusive, tho. I can gain pleasure from owning, driving AND residuals. It's the balance.
Please don't think that I am only planning on doing 20 miles and then rubbing it down with a mink fur. I'm really thinking about the difference between doing c.8k per annum or using it more like a second car and reducing that to c.4k by picking up a cheap additional vehicle.
In truth, I'm not even really thinking that now - I just need to type out the thoughts so I could realise I was being f
king stupid. Cheib said:
I think the answer depends on how much you value your enjoyment vs say the improved residual value. If your car has done say 15k miles in two years time vs 25k miles I don't think you're talking many thousands of pounds difference in trade-in value...maybe £2k or £3k absolute tops. The spec of your car will matter much more IMHO.
Spot on. There's no need to second guess this or worry about it as you can put a real cash value on it. You either accept that it'll cost you an extra few grand over the term and use it whenever you want, or you have a bit more residual value and leave it on your driveway all the time. The future of cars like these isn't certain, they'll eventually be taxed off the roads anyway so fill your bloody boots while you can!
The high 997 GTS residuals are a guide as to how your 991 will perform.
Although ultra low mileage cars inevitably attract a premium there is not a vast difference between low and low/medium mileage cars, the specification being more a determinant of residuals.
Imo each Porsche is broadly only suitable for a particular drive/journey. And most Porsches CAN be viewed as wasted on the 'boring' commute IF it comprises motorway/city/traffic or bad weather for example.
Whilst the GT3 CAN be used on a commute this would largely be a waste. The e.g. GT4 is better as a drivers car at lower speeds such as b roads. Other Porsches suit other roads and journeys/weather conditions. Also dependent on your mood and sense of occasion from the car etc.
So use a 'snotter on the commute. Keep mileage down on your p and j and save it for the special occasions and you will look forward to using it all the more. And the residual value will be maintained.
Win win.
Although ultra low mileage cars inevitably attract a premium there is not a vast difference between low and low/medium mileage cars, the specification being more a determinant of residuals.
Imo each Porsche is broadly only suitable for a particular drive/journey. And most Porsches CAN be viewed as wasted on the 'boring' commute IF it comprises motorway/city/traffic or bad weather for example.
Whilst the GT3 CAN be used on a commute this would largely be a waste. The e.g. GT4 is better as a drivers car at lower speeds such as b roads. Other Porsches suit other roads and journeys/weather conditions. Also dependent on your mood and sense of occasion from the car etc.
So use a 'snotter on the commute. Keep mileage down on your p and j and save it for the special occasions and you will look forward to using it all the more. And the residual value will be maintained.
Win win.
Edited by av185 on Tuesday 24th January 12:25
PhantomPH said:
I imagine the Conti GT has shed a chunk on a good day. Hope he gets what he's after.
The other things are not mutually exclusive, tho. I can gain pleasure from owning, driving AND residuals. It's the balance.
Please don't think that I am only planning on doing 20 miles and then rubbing it down with a mink fur. I'm really thinking about the difference between doing c.8k per annum or using it more like a second car and reducing that to c.4k by picking up a cheap additional vehicle.
In truth, I'm not even really thinking that now - I just need to type out the thoughts so I could realise I was being fking stupid.
Yeah it hasn't been a cheap two years motoring but he knew that going in. Wanted to tick the box! I think he's trying to close the gap between a dealer taking £20k and £10k! 20% is standard margin for these guys apparently! The other things are not mutually exclusive, tho. I can gain pleasure from owning, driving AND residuals. It's the balance.
Please don't think that I am only planning on doing 20 miles and then rubbing it down with a mink fur. I'm really thinking about the difference between doing c.8k per annum or using it more like a second car and reducing that to c.4k by picking up a cheap additional vehicle.
In truth, I'm not even really thinking that now - I just need to type out the thoughts so I could realise I was being f
king stupid. Back to you. 8 km miles over a couple of years ? I wouldn't even think about running a second car to save that money to be honest. You have to tax and insure whatever that car is and then there's always the possibility of it needing money spending on it etc
Enjoy your GTS to the fullest!
Cayman GTS owner here, and I've had the same sort of thoughts as the OP. I've reasoned that:
- It will never have the interest/demand of a GT car but it should have decent residuals being at the top of the 981 heap before the 718 arrived.
- I bought it at a year old with 9,500 miles and if I do 5-6K miles a year it'll take another seven to eight years to bring the mileage up to 50K - still an attractive proposition to a new owner. (And I'll keep it as mint as possible.)
- If I use it reasonably often, but not every day, driving it stays special.
- It's a keeper but realistically how long will I own it for? Might as well enjoy it while I can.
- It will never have the interest/demand of a GT car but it should have decent residuals being at the top of the 981 heap before the 718 arrived.
- I bought it at a year old with 9,500 miles and if I do 5-6K miles a year it'll take another seven to eight years to bring the mileage up to 50K - still an attractive proposition to a new owner. (And I'll keep it as mint as possible.)
- If I use it reasonably often, but not every day, driving it stays special.
- It's a keeper but realistically how long will I own it for? Might as well enjoy it while I can.
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