Discussion
There are many nice things I like and appreciate on the 981 (I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise) but ultimately I cannot live it as a daily driver. The steering, chassis and PDK gearbox is a bit meh, I feel like I am driving a glorified VW product.
I am going to “downgrade” back to a 997 C2 manual, with telepathic steering and a chassis that not only gives you real feedback but one that buzzes and fizzes - that feeling of involvement even when you are just bumbling along.
Admittedly I have not seen anyone post about making a similar move but I mustn’t be the only one?
I am going to “downgrade” back to a 997 C2 manual, with telepathic steering and a chassis that not only gives you real feedback but one that buzzes and fizzes - that feeling of involvement even when you are just bumbling along.
Admittedly I have not seen anyone post about making a similar move but I mustn’t be the only one?
LOL - Well I've just gone the other way...
From a 997 GTS to a Cayman GT4! GTS was great, lovely steering feel, balance and power but was a PDK. The GT4 has reminded me how much I enjoy the art of changing gear, the car feels alive underneath you and once the roads dry out i'm looking forward to getting to know the steering & mid-engine layout better.
From a 997 GTS to a Cayman GT4! GTS was great, lovely steering feel, balance and power but was a PDK. The GT4 has reminded me how much I enjoy the art of changing gear, the car feels alive underneath you and once the roads dry out i'm looking forward to getting to know the steering & mid-engine layout better.
Sounds like you've come from the 997, so you know what you're heading back to having tried the 981. I do agree with what you say. I have a 981 2.7 manual and love the engine but not the dull throttle response from idle. The gear change is the best I've experienced, but saddled with overly tall gearing. The interior is a lovely place to spend time in. Mine has standard suspension, which seems comfort-oriented. And of course there's less feel and feedback than previous generations, the EPAS steering being an obvious difference. And the brakes.
I also have a 997.1 C2S, which has a different set of pluses and minuses. There's much talk about the fragility of the M97 engine (I fully understand and accept BTW), but not much discussion about how lovely it is to use. The gearing probably isn't massively different from the 981 but the 997 has torque everywhere. The interior is very comfortable but obviously the tech is now old (though still functional). I haven't driven a passively suspended car but I find the PASM remarkable for road use. The steering is light but wriggles beneath your fingertips. There's greater feel all round.
I don't see where you can have both experiences in one car. Which is a shame.
I also have a 997.1 C2S, which has a different set of pluses and minuses. There's much talk about the fragility of the M97 engine (I fully understand and accept BTW), but not much discussion about how lovely it is to use. The gearing probably isn't massively different from the 981 but the 997 has torque everywhere. The interior is very comfortable but obviously the tech is now old (though still functional). I haven't driven a passively suspended car but I find the PASM remarkable for road use. The steering is light but wriggles beneath your fingertips. There's greater feel all round.
I don't see where you can have both experiences in one car. Which is a shame.
Cheers. May well look at getting it done come service time. Just had the brake fluid done and initially thought it felt a bit firmer but it's on the occasions when you're braking hard down from say 80 that the spongey feel seems to re-appear and doesn't inspire much confidence. Granted the 2.7 brakes are likely not as good as the S either, they're not the biggest discs.
I also went the other way. 997.1 C2 manual to 981 CS manual. I agree with you on the steering point but question the chassis remark. From a driving dynamics perspective, on road and track I've found that the Cayman's inherent balance trumps the C2 in every area save for traction. My car has PASM as opposed to the standard passive dampers or the Sports suspension. I do think these damper options change the characteristics significantly, together with wheel diameter / tyre profile. I think the brake feel point is really down to personal preference. In absolute terms the CS stops better than the C2 but that's slightly unfair comparison due to different disc diameters.
Still really enjoyed my time in the C2 though and would recommend one to anyone thinking of the default C2S option. Good luck with the change and remember to report back!
Still really enjoyed my time in the C2 though and would recommend one to anyone thinking of the default C2S option. Good luck with the change and remember to report back!
I think cmoose's remarks are pretty solid. Essentially each generation seems to have its strong points and weak points. For me it's about getting into a frame of mind to enjoy the particular car and acknowledging that there will always be weak points, some you can change/work around, some you can't. 981 chassis, interior, engine and looks are great for me. Manual gearing length is a massive let down so I went PDK for variety and the shorter gearing. Steering feel is sub optimal, but then it only erks me if I've just got out of my 993, so on a daily basis I just live with it. Brake pedal could be firmer, but then it's less of an issue with PDK. And compared to my Caterham everything feels pretty contrived anyway.
Funnily enough, writing this has dredged up memories of why I bought my first Porsche (996 C4S) about 9 years ago: it was the engine noise and the feel of the gear shift. There's still something amazing about 996 gear shifts for me, they somehow feel slick and curvy yet so precise. Can't properly describe it but it's different to anything else I've ever used.
Funnily enough, writing this has dredged up memories of why I bought my first Porsche (996 C4S) about 9 years ago: it was the engine noise and the feel of the gear shift. There's still something amazing about 996 gear shifts for me, they somehow feel slick and curvy yet so precise. Can't properly describe it but it's different to anything else I've ever used.
Gerber1 said:
Re chassis comments above, yes the 981 is extraordinary in terms of the speed you can corner but its a benign don't you think?
I think managing the weight transfer in a 911 is part of the fun, plus its easier to drive quicker because the car is more communicative on the limit.
Arguably so, but when we're talking about comparing mid and rear-engine Porsche handling, it's only really relevant on track I find or on a few specific roads I can think of i.e. only about 2% of the time you're driving. Rear-engined is more challenging/interesting on track, but again it's about getting into the correct mind set. When I used to take my 997 GT3 on track, it always felt like something to be tamed and a bit of a temperamental hooligan which was fun. Whereas with my BGTS with PDK, there's something also very enjoyable about the fact that it just feels like a precision instrument (albeit it softer than the GT3) where you can just work it harder and harder with no surprises. Was the GT3 ultimately more fun on track? Yes, but that's not taking anything away from the Boxster.I think managing the weight transfer in a 911 is part of the fun, plus its easier to drive quicker because the car is more communicative on the limit.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That link should take you to an extract from the rather excellent 997 book which details which models have the GT3 MC.Basically the C4S, Targa 4, C4 GTS, Turbo and GT models have it.
The brake booster is also different on everything above the Carrera and Carrera S according to that.
Mario149 said:
Arguably so, but when we're talking about comparing mid and rear-engine Porsche handling, it's only really relevant on track I find or on a few specific roads I can think of i.e. only about 2% of the time you're driving. Rear-engined is more challenging/interesting on track, but again it's about getting into the correct mind set. When I used to take my 997 GT3 on track, it always felt like something to be tamed and a bit of a temperamental hooligan which was fun. Whereas with my BGTS with PDK, there's something also very enjoyable about the fact that it just feels like a precision instrument (albeit it softer than the GT3) where you can just work it harder and harder with no surprises. Was the GT3 ultimately more fun on track? Yes, but that's not taking anything away from the Boxster.
Actually I think the differences are quite pronounced in the 9x7 variants, less so on the 9x1 (all imo).Gerber1 said:
Mario149 said:
Arguably so, but when we're talking about comparing mid and rear-engine Porsche handling, it's only really relevant on track I find or on a few specific roads I can think of i.e. only about 2% of the time you're driving. Rear-engined is more challenging/interesting on track, but again it's about getting into the correct mind set. When I used to take my 997 GT3 on track, it always felt like something to be tamed and a bit of a temperamental hooligan which was fun. Whereas with my BGTS with PDK, there's something also very enjoyable about the fact that it just feels like a precision instrument (albeit it softer than the GT3) where you can just work it harder and harder with no surprises. Was the GT3 ultimately more fun on track? Yes, but that's not taking anything away from the Boxster.
Actually I think the differences are quite pronounced in the 9x7 variants, less so on the 9x1 (all imo).
My 996, while a bit hazy in my memory, seemed to fall somewhere between the 2, although closer to the 993 than 997 (or maybe my driving has just improved ). I've never driven a 987 properly in anger so can't compare, but one suspects they're not a million miles from how a 981 feels.Mario149 said:
Gerber1 said:
Mario149 said:
Arguably so, but when we're talking about comparing mid and rear-engine Porsche handling, it's only really relevant on track I find or on a few specific roads I can think of i.e. only about 2% of the time you're driving. Rear-engined is more challenging/interesting on track, but again it's about getting into the correct mind set. When I used to take my 997 GT3 on track, it always felt like something to be tamed and a bit of a temperamental hooligan which was fun. Whereas with my BGTS with PDK, there's something also very enjoyable about the fact that it just feels like a precision instrument (albeit it softer than the GT3) where you can just work it harder and harder with no surprises. Was the GT3 ultimately more fun on track? Yes, but that's not taking anything away from the Boxster.
Actually I think the differences are quite pronounced in the 9x7 variants, less so on the 9x1 (all imo). My 996, while a bit hazy in my memory, seemed to fall somewhere between the 2, although closer to the 993 than 997 (or maybe my driving has just improved ). I've never driven a 987 properly in anger so can't compare, but one suspects they're not a million miles from how a 981 feels.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Some details herehttps://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jcV3DAAAQBAJ&a...
Hope the link works...
Cheib said:
Looks a brilliant book, I dont have a 997 but may have to buy that.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff