GT3 costs and pitfalls
Discussion
Good afternoon all
I have been toying with the concept of buying a 997 gen 1 GT3 for some time,
I currently have a CSL but really want to scratch the pork itch!
owning the CSL has been a pleasure and the running costs have been relatively in expensive due to the fact that most of the part are shared with the M3.
obviously I know the GT3 will be a more expensive animal to keep on the road but I'm just trying to gauge what these costs might be like?
Im looking at an 07 ish car with around 30k on the clock and I have heard things like suspension refreshes ect ect and don't want to end up with a 80k car that needs 10k spent on it in the near future.
I will be stretching myself to buy the car so money to me is an situation I have to keep an eye on.
any advice would be appreciated
thanks
I have been toying with the concept of buying a 997 gen 1 GT3 for some time,
I currently have a CSL but really want to scratch the pork itch!
owning the CSL has been a pleasure and the running costs have been relatively in expensive due to the fact that most of the part are shared with the M3.
obviously I know the GT3 will be a more expensive animal to keep on the road but I'm just trying to gauge what these costs might be like?
Im looking at an 07 ish car with around 30k on the clock and I have heard things like suspension refreshes ect ect and don't want to end up with a 80k car that needs 10k spent on it in the near future.
I will be stretching myself to buy the car so money to me is an situation I have to keep an eye on.
any advice would be appreciated
thanks
Much will hinge around where you buy from, but irrespective the cars you're considering are 10 years old now, and from my perspective a proper PPI by a knowledgeable indy will be essential (avoid using your or the vendors local OPC, they're a waste of time), depending on where you are, there are plenty of good indies well versed in the the 996/997 GT3.
The list of components that may or may not be worn is long and varied, and without wishing to sound unhelpful, the old adage "do a search is apt", as there are numerous threads regarding running costs of 996 & 997 GT3's.
When you find the right car (preferably serviced to the hilt with new tyres, brakes and suspension etc) your running costs will be dependent on how you use it and how often, frequent track forays = big bills. Summer use only for highdays, holidays and trips to Europe will be far cheaper.
I ran a CSL for three years and 30k miles, it was considerably cheaper to run than any of the GT2/3's I'be owned, though I ran it with the benefit of BMW's excellent AUC and subsequently the Mondial/BMW warranty.
The CSL is no longer the bargain it was, the 997 GT3 is a different ownership proposition on so many levels.
The list of components that may or may not be worn is long and varied, and without wishing to sound unhelpful, the old adage "do a search is apt", as there are numerous threads regarding running costs of 996 & 997 GT3's.
When you find the right car (preferably serviced to the hilt with new tyres, brakes and suspension etc) your running costs will be dependent on how you use it and how often, frequent track forays = big bills. Summer use only for highdays, holidays and trips to Europe will be far cheaper.
I ran a CSL for three years and 30k miles, it was considerably cheaper to run than any of the GT2/3's I'be owned, though I ran it with the benefit of BMW's excellent AUC and subsequently the Mondial/BMW warranty.
The CSL is no longer the bargain it was, the 997 GT3 is a different ownership proposition on so many levels.
This may help reassure you. My 07 GT3 has done about 22k miles. Iv'e owned it for 18 months. It has a full OPC service history as it was always under warranty and therefore I don't know how critically the suspension was checked.
Anyway I just took it to Centre Gravity for their £100 check-over. Nothing needs replacing although I have booked it in for the geometry to be refreshed.
I did get a full Peter Morgan inspection prior to purchase.
I would say that if you buy carefully costs can be controlled.
Anyway I just took it to Centre Gravity for their £100 check-over. Nothing needs replacing although I have booked it in for the geometry to be refreshed.
I did get a full Peter Morgan inspection prior to purchase.
I would say that if you buy carefully costs can be controlled.
I owned a 997.1 GT3 for 4 years.
Over this time I had to replace the clutch, suspension, and discs/pads.
I also had a number of large warranty claims - From my limited experience I wouldn't buy one without a warranty.
That being said, it was a fantastic car (the best I've owned), and I only sold it because it ran out of warranty.
Funnily enough since then Porsche has extended the upper age limit for the warranty.
Over this time I had to replace the clutch, suspension, and discs/pads.
I also had a number of large warranty claims - From my limited experience I wouldn't buy one without a warranty.
That being said, it was a fantastic car (the best I've owned), and I only sold it because it ran out of warranty.
Funnily enough since then Porsche has extended the upper age limit for the warranty.
In terms of running costs, as the chaps below said it depends on usage. I am a light user and I think my service is 1k a year, sometimes a bit more of you need to fix anything. At this age things do need replacing from time to time, but it's not a sudden 10k as is sometimes suggested. It comes more in dribs and drabs assuming that prior owners have t neglected the car. That's key for me, to buy a well loved one (or price in a rather larger refresh).
I regard these cars as very tough and I don't worry about warranty. That's a personal choice though and depends on risk appetite and personal circumstances. I imagine the majority of these cars are not under warranty.
I regard these cars as very tough and I don't worry about warranty. That's a personal choice though and depends on risk appetite and personal circumstances. I imagine the majority of these cars are not under warranty.
I had a CSL that liked using its warranty all the time and then replaced it with a 997 GT3 last summer. It too has a warranty and I haven't needed it at all, and probably won't renew.
Only thing I will say is you can't take it with you and the GT3 is so special in so many ways you'll just pay whatever it takes.
Only thing I will say is you can't take it with you and the GT3 is so special in so many ways you'll just pay whatever it takes.
Be aware of the 10k refresh, seriously.
Yes it's not the norm, and for the most part car is robust. BUT if it has not had money spent on it it will need to at some point. I bought what I thought was a reasonably well cared for GT2, had it inspected (plus additional opinion from someone who 'knew' the car). Unfortunately the people inspecting it (OPC) was completely incompetent and the guy (fella has raced 996 GT3's) who supposedly knew the car clearly didn't know it too well.
I will have spent about 15k when I'm done. Just saying, these cars can and will over time cost money. If you have the facilities and knowledge to do things yourself you will save a boatload, labour cost kills you.
Yes it's not the norm, and for the most part car is robust. BUT if it has not had money spent on it it will need to at some point. I bought what I thought was a reasonably well cared for GT2, had it inspected (plus additional opinion from someone who 'knew' the car). Unfortunately the people inspecting it (OPC) was completely incompetent and the guy (fella has raced 996 GT3's) who supposedly knew the car clearly didn't know it too well.
I will have spent about 15k when I'm done. Just saying, these cars can and will over time cost money. If you have the facilities and knowledge to do things yourself you will save a boatload, labour cost kills you.
The GT3 is similar to your CSL i.e. It was designed to be used, I've owned mine for 9 years now and still love it. Yes there has been some big bills it that time but if you use these cars then that's to be expected. There's always been talk about big refresh cost which I struggle to grasp as to me this is just mtce of the car and let's face it what car doesn't need mtce after 10 years of action.
The key is to buy a car which has been maintained as with any car, do your home work, get it inspected by a good Indy who knows these car (not an OPC), check wearable components and when they were last replaced. all standard stuff, and don't be afraid of a tracked or high mileage car, IMO these cars tend to maintained to a much higher standard than a car that sits in a garage and only has a 2 year OPC service.
Good luck
Jon
The key is to buy a car which has been maintained as with any car, do your home work, get it inspected by a good Indy who knows these car (not an OPC), check wearable components and when they were last replaced. all standard stuff, and don't be afraid of a tracked or high mileage car, IMO these cars tend to maintained to a much higher standard than a car that sits in a garage and only has a 2 year OPC service.
Good luck
Jon
Edited by Cunno on Wednesday 8th February 09:11
fredt said:
Be aware of the 10k refresh, seriously.
Yes it's not the norm, and for the most part car is robust. BUT if it has not had money spent on it it will need to at some point. I bought what I thought was a reasonably well cared for GT2, had it inspected (plus additional opinion from someone who 'knew' the car). Unfortunately the people inspecting it (OPC) was completely incompetent and the guy (fella has raced 996 GT3's) who supposedly knew the car clearly didn't know it too well.
I will have spent about 15k when I'm done. Just saying, these cars can and will over time cost money. If you have the facilities and knowledge to do things yourself you will save a boatload, labour cost kills you.
IME this can also, potentially (but by no means always) be the case.Yes it's not the norm, and for the most part car is robust. BUT if it has not had money spent on it it will need to at some point. I bought what I thought was a reasonably well cared for GT2, had it inspected (plus additional opinion from someone who 'knew' the car). Unfortunately the people inspecting it (OPC) was completely incompetent and the guy (fella has raced 996 GT3's) who supposedly knew the car clearly didn't know it too well.
I will have spent about 15k when I'm done. Just saying, these cars can and will over time cost money. If you have the facilities and knowledge to do things yourself you will save a boatload, labour cost kills you.
An example being that my 996 turbo (very similar drivetrain) developed the dreaded second gear pop-out (OP, Google if you don't know what to look for) and needed new gears and bearings etc. etc. which was a pretty big job. The 'boxes can give trouble.
When I picked my car up I felt lucky that I had not 'stretched' to an £80k 997 GT3, because there was one in there having almost exactly the same job done, having previously had it addressed (unsatisfactorily, as it proved) by an OPC that had subbed the job out to someone useless. Given what I paid for my car, I was without debt and still had funds to work with. I now view it as a car that I know and, to me, that holds some reassurance, even if it is out of warranty.
A 997 GT3 is probably less that a potential money pit that a cooking 997 C2. The engine and gearbox are very strong, the diff is inexpensive to refurb and the running gear comparatively inexpensive. If you get a well known specialist to check the car before you buy it, you should be fine.
Hi
I've had my 2007 GT3 for just over 4 years now. I am the second owner. just renewed the warranty for another two years from November 2016.My car has always had OPC warranty. In the 4 plus years, I've had a centre radiator, and an Aircon radiator, starter motor and a temperature sender unit fitted all under the warranty. So far I have paid out just under £4,000 for 4 years warranty. I know they said the starter motor was around £750.00 plus fitting. Aircon rad around £00.00 plus fitting. Centre Rad around £600.00 plus fitting. Temperature sender was only £68.00 , but they needed quite a few hours to fit because they said they had to drop the engine a bit and aircon pump had to be removed. Roughly £1,700.00 plus labour costs over 4 year. The warranty mainly a piece of mind I guess.
I've have done 18,000 miles in 4 years. Every single time I have gone out in my car I just love it.
I've had my 2007 GT3 for just over 4 years now. I am the second owner. just renewed the warranty for another two years from November 2016.My car has always had OPC warranty. In the 4 plus years, I've had a centre radiator, and an Aircon radiator, starter motor and a temperature sender unit fitted all under the warranty. So far I have paid out just under £4,000 for 4 years warranty. I know they said the starter motor was around £750.00 plus fitting. Aircon rad around £00.00 plus fitting. Centre Rad around £600.00 plus fitting. Temperature sender was only £68.00 , but they needed quite a few hours to fit because they said they had to drop the engine a bit and aircon pump had to be removed. Roughly £1,700.00 plus labour costs over 4 year. The warranty mainly a piece of mind I guess.
I've have done 18,000 miles in 4 years. Every single time I have gone out in my car I just love it.
just my 2p worth. I brought my 07 GT3 last september for 85K, club sport with 22,000 on it. it still has porsche warranty. in november i heard a annoying knocking / rattle. went into my local Porsche dealer. It has been in and out of porsche the last month or so.
They have ended up replacing...
top mounts
coffin arms
steering rack
2 x rear springs 1 was cracked
And still the noise happens
so they replaced the ceramic discs as none of them were in tolerance on the bells, and when they tried to tighten them the small bolts snapped. so new discs all round and still a knocking and rattle!!!
ended ups being the dampers
the bill for this which was covered under warranty is in excess of £30,000
Skip to this week
i have taken my car to Matt at Fearnsport to prep the car for this years track days. i have decided to change and up grade a few things
Alcon discs
RS29 Pads
endless fluid
Rear tow arms (porsche motorsport)
Motorsport cup diff plates
Weld all coolant pipes (engine out)
Upgrade to 4.0 RS Clutch
Full Geo and corner weighted
As you can see these mods are not cheap and necessary to have a good reliable track car.
If you are going to track it, make sure the least you do is weld the coolant pipes, for your safety aswell as others around you.
They have ended up replacing...
top mounts
coffin arms
steering rack
2 x rear springs 1 was cracked
And still the noise happens
so they replaced the ceramic discs as none of them were in tolerance on the bells, and when they tried to tighten them the small bolts snapped. so new discs all round and still a knocking and rattle!!!
ended ups being the dampers
the bill for this which was covered under warranty is in excess of £30,000
Skip to this week
i have taken my car to Matt at Fearnsport to prep the car for this years track days. i have decided to change and up grade a few things
Alcon discs
RS29 Pads
endless fluid
Rear tow arms (porsche motorsport)
Motorsport cup diff plates
Weld all coolant pipes (engine out)
Upgrade to 4.0 RS Clutch
Full Geo and corner weighted
As you can see these mods are not cheap and necessary to have a good reliable track car.
If you are going to track it, make sure the least you do is weld the coolant pipes, for your safety aswell as others around you.
Steve Rance said:
A 997 GT3 is probably less that a potential money pit that a cooking 997 C2. The engine and gearbox are very strong, the diff is inexpensive to refurb and the running gear comparatively inexpensive. If you get a well known specialist to check the car before you buy it, you should be fine.
Agree with what Steve has to add - but coming from a BMW there are some 'I did not know they did that ' sort of costs.The ones I had to pay for in 4 years of 997 GT3 Gen 1 were
Air conditioning radiator leaking (I even had the GT3 Cup grills fitted as well)
Front discs and pads were replaced due to an enthusiastic VMax day at Brunters
Rear tyres can easily be munched through at an alarming rate
Geometry adjustments - GT3's & 911's for that matter are very sensitive to geo/alignment changes - it only takes a few potholes to make your pride and joy feel all at sea.
Other than that, GT3 ownership was an absolute delight and relatively kind on the wallet
Enjoy.
CSLmarson said:
don't want to end up with a 80k car that needs 10k spent on it in the near future.
I know mine will not be a popular view on here but as the owner of a 996 that spent a few seasons racing, I am of the view that if the car is to be used in the manner the manufacturer intended, then it is also designed to be regularly rebuilt/refreshed like Trigger's Broom. This is not cheap and I tend to consider 10k to be at the very low end of a proper refresh. After each rebuild, you effectively have a mechanically new car.If on the other hand you are picking up a weekend car that has seen no more than a few public track days every year, then you will be unlucky to be funding full engine and gearbox rebuilds (other than a new diff, if it's anything like the Dairy Milk diff on the 996). On the other hand, this latter type of car is probably less likely to have experienced an aviation-style maintenance schedule.
Slippydiff said:
Pookster said:
I had a CSL that liked using its warranty all the time
Same here 
ARTiSAN1066 said:
Slippydiff said:
Pookster said:
I had a CSL that liked using its warranty all the time
Same here 
Wonderful cars, though often misunderstood or discounted by those who didn't bother to learn the 'box (or just didn't want to) more fool them, they missed a real gem.
Slippydiff said:
Boot floor/rear subframe mounts anyone ?
Wonderful cars, though often misunderstood or discounted by those who didn't bother to learn the 'box (or just didn't want to) more fool them, they missed a real gem.
CSL is an amazing and underrated car, says a lot that for me only step up was a GT3. Had a Cayman R for a bit but was just OK next to the CSL, which was truly special. Did need a lot of TLC though: boot floor, oil pump, shells, cams, vanos, springs, diff, rear view mirror, mirror motors, radio - all on warranty, phewWonderful cars, though often misunderstood or discounted by those who didn't bother to learn the 'box (or just didn't want to) more fool them, they missed a real gem.
997 GT3 better at everything, including the feeling special bit. But could happily own both if I ever won the lottery and started a collection.
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