Where do I get driver training for the 911?
Discussion
It has to be said, I need to learn how to drive my car properly. I can drive the thing swiftly on the roads and reasonably on the track, but not really quickly.
My first thoughts are to do Mark Hales' course at Anglesey. You drive a front wheel drive hatch, not your 911. You learn lines on day one, then some car control on day two (althought this doesn't do his training techniques justice I imagine). See:
www.markhales.com/
I reckon after that I can start spending money on specific 911 training. But who with? I know Don Palmer's day is mainly for skid pan stuff (Adam has done this in the Yellowbird), not specifically circuit driving which is what I want to learn. Maybe Richard Westbrook teaches? Or what about the GT3 RS fellas like Mr Rance and Mr Dudding? Where did you guys learn?
My first thoughts are to do Mark Hales' course at Anglesey. You drive a front wheel drive hatch, not your 911. You learn lines on day one, then some car control on day two (althought this doesn't do his training techniques justice I imagine). See:
www.markhales.com/
I reckon after that I can start spending money on specific 911 training. But who with? I know Don Palmer's day is mainly for skid pan stuff (Adam has done this in the Yellowbird), not specifically circuit driving which is what I want to learn. Maybe Richard Westbrook teaches? Or what about the GT3 RS fellas like Mr Rance and Mr Dudding? Where did you guys learn?
He want's to learn how to drive quickly on a circuit, the whole feeding the wheel while never overlapping braking and gearchange won't help there, in fact they'll make him slower. It's what put's me off those courses, you'd get a right bollocking for using rotational steering and heal and toe!
johnny senna said:
Is there a specific 911 training guru out there?
Yes there is...he features in Porsche Post from time to time. I may be able to find out....but "Bernard" something is all my drunken brain can recall at the moment...
I'll try and post in the morning....if I remember any more...
Johnny
I am not a good track driver, sounds like I am similar to you. I can get the braking and turn in correct, but I am still not quick enough on the power on exiting the corner, I really need to work on this. I have only seriously been doing track days for 2 years, so I guess it comes with experience.
Steve Rance has a motor racing background, but he is also keen to learn and always asks other drivers about there technique.
There is the other approach that another friend has taken, Andrew Baughan, and his backgroung is just by doing lots and lots of track days, he has been tracking for approx 10 years and has done about 25 track days a year.
As for learning new skills, I get either of the above 2 guys in the car for some pointers, or make use of some of the instructors we have at our events. I also heard thet Bernard Audbery (hope I got his name right Melv can help here) is very good.
Hope this helps
Cheers Sean
I am not a good track driver, sounds like I am similar to you. I can get the braking and turn in correct, but I am still not quick enough on the power on exiting the corner, I really need to work on this. I have only seriously been doing track days for 2 years, so I guess it comes with experience.
Steve Rance has a motor racing background, but he is also keen to learn and always asks other drivers about there technique.
There is the other approach that another friend has taken, Andrew Baughan, and his backgroung is just by doing lots and lots of track days, he has been tracking for approx 10 years and has done about 25 track days a year.
As for learning new skills, I get either of the above 2 guys in the car for some pointers, or make use of some of the instructors we have at our events. I also heard thet Bernard Audbery (hope I got his name right Melv can help here) is very good.
Hope this helps
Cheers Sean
Johnny, take it from me Andrew Walsh can drive 911s. He's an ex Bennetton F1 test driver.
TBH I don't know your level of experience or ability. IMHO trackcraft is secondary to car control. If you are happy you are competant in controling the car fully then perhaps track driving course is the way to go. The Hales thing doesn't look cheap though.
TBH I don't know your level of experience or ability. IMHO trackcraft is secondary to car control. If you are happy you are competant in controling the car fully then perhaps track driving course is the way to go. The Hales thing doesn't look cheap though.
tony.t said:
Johnny, take it from me Andrew Walsh can drive 911s. He's an ex Bennetton F1 test driver.
TBH I don't know your level of experience or ability. IMHO trackcraft is secondary to car control. If you are happy you are competant in controling the car fully then perhaps track driving course is the way to go. The Hales thing doesn't look cheap though.
The 'Hales thing' is VERY cheap compared to the cost of smashing the shite out of your porka due to insufficient training!
You might try Simon Mason, one of the UK's top motor racing instructors. He's accredited to Porsche (has done press days for Boxster and 996) aswell as Aston Martin, and truly knows his stuff. Contact him via Silverstone motorsport, or directly via www.simonmason.com.
He's also a PH member, his user name is er... Simon Mason. Check out his posts - when everyone else is talking out of their respective arses, his comments are the one's you need to look out for!!!
Usual crap, not affiliated in any way, etc, just a happy customer!
Garrett
Hi Mr Senna,
I've just come back from one of Don Palmers courses; it's my second time with him and the video will be up on Pistonheads.tv shortly.
Car control has to be your number one priority. How can you drive something at 100% without understanding how and why it behaves the way it does?
I can testify that Mr palmer knows a thing or two about car control in a 911. Diver944 and Oldtimer were also on the course and may be able to add something.
Of course, not everyone will like Don's style of teaching as it's certainly unique.
I'm doing a day with Andy walsh in a couple of weeks so I'll let you know how I get on.
Oh, I've also done a day with Bernard; terribly nice fella and an ace at roadcraft (that I did with him).
I've just come back from one of Don Palmers courses; it's my second time with him and the video will be up on Pistonheads.tv shortly.
Car control has to be your number one priority. How can you drive something at 100% without understanding how and why it behaves the way it does?
I can testify that Mr palmer knows a thing or two about car control in a 911. Diver944 and Oldtimer were also on the course and may be able to add something.
Of course, not everyone will like Don's style of teaching as it's certainly unique.
I'm doing a day with Andy walsh in a couple of weeks so I'll let you know how I get on.
Oh, I've also done a day with Bernard; terribly nice fella and an ace at roadcraft (that I did with him).
aceparts_com said:
Hi Mr Senna,
I've just come back from one of Don Palmers courses; it's my second time with him and the video will be up on Pistonheads.tv shortly.
Car control has to be your number one priority. How can you drive something at 100% without understanding how and why it behaves the way it does?
I can testify that Mr palmer knows a thing or two about car control in a 911. Diver944 and Oldtimer were also on the course and may be able to add something.
Of course, not everyone will like Don's style of teaching as it's certainly unique.
I'm doing a day with Andy walsh in a couple of weeks so I'll let you know how I get on.
Oh, I've also done a day with Bernard; terribly nice fella and an ace at roadcraft (that I did with him).
Excellent. I'll look forward to reading about your day with Andy Walsh. Could you post something on here about it please when you have done it?
GarrettMacD said:
The 'Hales thing' is VERY cheap compared to the cost of smashing the shite out of your porka due to insufficient training!
Hmmm, I've crashed my porka twice and both times it's been cheaper than the Pau Arnos thing.
I wonder if Mr Hales would give a guarrentee that no further crashes would occur after his training and indemnify against any losses. Probably not.
I don't think I'm suggesting that training is a bad idea because it's expensive merely that relative to other driver training available the days with Hales are expensive. Whether they are good value I can't comment as I haven't done one.
tony.t said:
The 'Hales thing' is VERY cheap compared to the cost of smashing the shite out of your porka due to insufficient training!
Hmmm, I've crashed my porka twice and both times it's been cheaper than the Pau Arnos thing.
I wonder if Mr Hales would give a guarrentee that no further crashes would occur after his training and indemnify against any losses. Probably not.
I don't think I'm suggesting that training is a bad idea because it's expensive merely that relative to other driver training available the days with Hales are expensive. Whether they are good value I can't comment as I haven't done one.
I was referring to 'Johnny Senna's' car, which, being a 993 RS would, I presume, cost considerably more than £1700 to repair after a decent smash. £1700 being the cost of 2 days at Pau, although you can of course just do the 1 day at Anglesey for £750.
Of course Mr Hales would not indemnify against further damages after receiving training, no other instructor does so. Do you think Michael Schumacher signs an indemnity not to crash his F1 car??? Or, even better, does the PCGB indemnify against any damage on one of their trackdays?
And yes, Hales is expensive, but I guess that when you get the benefit of the experience of someone who's won over 150 races (according to his website), plus the fact that he can obviously TEACH it (see his article in Circuit Driver) then the costs come back into focus. There's no point in being in a car with someone who's fast if they can't explain to you WHY they are able to get it to that level. For example, Mika Hakkinen could drive any Porsche very fast, but I doubt whether he could eloquently tell the passenger how he's doing it!
BTW, I haven't done any of the Hales courses.
Cheers
Of course, but I think Don should be your first port of call. As all will say, he has a very unique method of teaching. I've gone from complete nervous novice with experience only of an escort 1.8TD to a sideways trackday nut in, er, 8 months!
Here's my driving resume:
Bernard Aubrey general skills session
2 Days at Rockingham with instructor sessions
Don Palmer day
Day at Bruntingthorpe with Anthonny Dunn of(Iwannagofaster.com) - VERY Highly recommended for track work!
3 days at Beford with Anthonny
Four more days at Bedford on my own
Another day with Don
Here's my driving resume:
Bernard Aubrey general skills session
2 Days at Rockingham with instructor sessions
Don Palmer day
Day at Bruntingthorpe with Anthonny Dunn of(Iwannagofaster.com) - VERY Highly recommended for track work!
3 days at Beford with Anthonny
Four more days at Bedford on my own
Another day with Don
aceparts_com said:
Of course, but I think Don should be your first port of call. As all will say, he has a very unique method of teaching. I've gone from complete nervous novice with experience only of an escort 1.8TD to a sideways trackday nut in, er, 8 months!
Here's my driving resume:
Bernard Aubrey general skills session
2 Days at Rockingham with instructor sessions
Don Palmer day
Day at Bruntingthorpe with Anthonny Dunn of(Iwannagofaster.com) - VERY Highly recommended for track work!
3 days at Beford with Anthonny
Four more days at Bedford on my own
Another day with Don
I like your style.
For training I think I will go for a Don Palmer day first, then move to normal circuits with one of the track fellas. But which one or ones? I would appreciate feedback please from people who have had lessons from anyone mentioned here or anyone else for that matter. Many thanks.
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