Is this UV's old car?
Discussion
http://www.coys.co.uk/cars/1991-porsche-964-turbo-...
If so, went for £72k on satuday at Blenheim. Is this a bargain for someone. Interesting, with the exception of about 5 lots, most stuff went for around 60-75% of the lower end of the estimates....
Is the classic market starting to soften more than people think? It was fairly well attended and had a number of dealers present.
If so, went for £72k on satuday at Blenheim. Is this a bargain for someone. Interesting, with the exception of about 5 lots, most stuff went for around 60-75% of the lower end of the estimates....
Is the classic market starting to soften more than people think? It was fairly well attended and had a number of dealers present.
I think if it had been advertised on here for £72,000.00 someone here would have bought that car. Putting it up for a very full price both privately and at specialist indys wasn't the right way with this car. Having said that I think £72k is a good price. Never been convinced about this cars reliability when running her in anger.
Yep. UV's old car 
A very niche product, and proof, if it were needed, that chucking shed loads of cash at a project car such as this, is rarely, if ever profitable, though that's rarely the point of the exercise (in my experience). But I agree, if it had been advertised at £75-£79k it would have sold much more quickly.
It was a beautifully executed car, both engine and bodywork mods are top quality.
What makes you question the engine's reliability DD ?
A very niche product, and proof, if it were needed, that chucking shed loads of cash at a project car such as this, is rarely, if ever profitable, though that's rarely the point of the exercise (in my experience). But I agree, if it had been advertised at £75-£79k it would have sold much more quickly.
It was a beautifully executed car, both engine and bodywork mods are top quality.
What makes you question the engine's reliability DD ?
Slippydiff said:
Yep. UV's old car
A very niche product, and proof, if it were needed, that chucking shed loads of cash at a project car such as this, is rarely, if ever profitable, though that's rarely the point of the exercise (in my experience). But I agree, if it had been advertised at £75-£79k it would have sold much more quickly.
It was a beautifully executed car, both engine and bodywork mods are top quality.
What makes you question the engine's reliability DD ?
Any air-cooled with more than 500bhp is going to be a challenge from a reliability perspective. Think this was quoted at 700-800hp when advertised? I understand the owner sadly passed but the fact no-ones entered since its been built at VMAX etc or equivalent tells a story IMO. Hopefully new owner will use it as intended and we can see how quick (and reliable) she really is.A very niche product, and proof, if it were needed, that chucking shed loads of cash at a project car such as this, is rarely, if ever profitable, though that's rarely the point of the exercise (in my experience). But I agree, if it had been advertised at £75-£79k it would have sold much more quickly.
It was a beautifully executed car, both engine and bodywork mods are top quality.
What makes you question the engine's reliability DD ?
Bargain at £72K - how much is a genuine 993 GT2 engine worth ? Surely the whole car would break for close to or more than that. Either way, if it had been advertised for circa £80k I reckon there would have been a mad scramble for it. I remember a few years ago some chap selling a Ruf 964 - had it up for a silly price, it eventually sold for around half of what he was asking (which then made it an absolute bargain) as that was the only offer the chap got.
g7jhp said:
Estimate £130-160k and it went for £72k.....that's a disastrous result!
90% of the lots had the same fate, and most had no reserve, as the vendors probably thought they were riding a wave. We had a 911T 2.4 in on consignment, but luckily had a reserve on it, so managed to drive it home, to live another day. A lot of people were licking their wounds, whilst buyers were walking around with happy faces!I love this car!
130 was always crazy optimistic given it has been for sale for a while, I inquired about a year back and the fella wanted 110 which I thought was mental. I would also be hesitant regarding reliability, has the car actually been used after the modifications?
I wonder if the £250k headline is spent on this iteration, or does that include the £90k ninemeister engine that he pretty much gave away after he built this one?
130 was always crazy optimistic given it has been for sale for a while, I inquired about a year back and the fella wanted 110 which I thought was mental. I would also be hesitant regarding reliability, has the car actually been used after the modifications?
I wonder if the £250k headline is spent on this iteration, or does that include the £90k ninemeister engine that he pretty much gave away after he built this one?
g7jhp said:
Estimate £130-160k and it went for £72k.....that's a disastrous result!
Not for the auctioneer though...they still get paid. I suppose the thinking was it was priced at a premium to a standard 3.3 Turbo because all that work that was put into the car must be worth something. As we all know those kind of modifications result in narrowing the list of potential buyers....anyone that bought that car would surely have bought it expecting they would have to spend money on it. I heard from a Porsche specialist two or three month's ago that cars like 964 Turbo's were struggling to find homes at the moment...other parts of the market still in good health but "classics" aren't. You can see it even with cars like 997.2 GT3's which had previously been selling in almost hours are now not moving as quickly.
Desert Dragon said:
Any air-cooled with more than 500bhp is going to be a challenge from a reliability perspective. Think this was quoted at 700-800hp when advertised? I understand the owner sadly passed but the fact no-ones entered since its been built at VMAX etc or equivalent tells a story IMO. Hopefully new owner will use it as intended and we can see how quick (and reliable) she really is.
If it's a typical RC development project, I'd guess it will have been very thoroughly thought through and once built proven on the dyno, It should be good for every last HP and reliably so. I've got the magazine article on it somewhere, the development process wasn't without its glitches mind ......Slippydiff said:
Desert Dragon said:
Any air-cooled with more than 500bhp is going to be a challenge from a reliability perspective. Think this was quoted at 700-800hp when advertised? I understand the owner sadly passed but the fact no-ones entered since its been built at VMAX etc or equivalent tells a story IMO. Hopefully new owner will use it as intended and we can see how quick (and reliable) she really is.
If it's a typical RC development project, I'd guess it will have been very thoroughly thought through and once built proven on the dyno, It should be good for every last HP and reliably so. I've got the magazine article on it somewhere, the development process wasn't without its glitches mind ......I met the owner at the Warren Cars and Coffee recently. It looked good still and he told me he expected it would fetch £100k. From what I recall I think he said the engine still needed mapping properly. I don't recall him saying it was a genuine GT2 engine though. Is that a fact? I know that the original engine is (was?) in Dave Dennett's K3 copy and the owner was offered a chance to reunite the two with no cash changing hands...he rejected that deal...
As others said, massively niche car. And they never make back what they cost to build, ever.
As others said, massively niche car. And they never make back what they cost to build, ever.
Ady128 said:
Who's UV?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0&memberId=13703Build thread here :
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-turbo-forum/516352...
Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 17th July 19:27
That is a lot of car for that money. It would be nice to hear from Charge why he decided to sell. I think 7 to 800 bhp on the 964 platform would be a challenge on street tyres and I do agree that reliability could be an issue if being used to the full quite often. Close to 500 bhp in a 993GT2 was enough of a challenge sometimes. We lost two proper petrolheads that year. UV and the chap that owned the beautiful black 930 turbo. His name eludes me at the moment. I believe a 964 3.6 turbo sold for £138K at Brooklands. Maybe 964 turbo prices are softening or are there just too many damn auctions ?
Edited by SRT Hellcat on Monday 17th July 23:21
SRT Hellcat said:
That is a lot of car for that money. It would be nice to hear from Charge why he decided to sell. I think 7 to 800 bhp on the 964 platform would be a challenge on street tyres and I do agree that reliability could be an issue if being used to the full quite often. Close to 500 bhp in a 993GT2 was enough of a challenge sometimes. We lost two proper petrolheads that year. UV and the chap that owned the beautiful black 930 turbo. His name eludes me at the moment. I believe a 964 3.6 turbo sold for £138K at Brooklands. Maybe 964 turbo prices are softening or are there just too many damn auctions ?
Jon or John (JBL930)SRT Hellcat said:
Maybe 964 turbo prices are softening or are there just too many damn auctions ?
Both in my opinion. It will be interesting to see how a lot of the cars in the Silverstone Classic auction do. If that one fares similarly to Blenheim, I'd be looking for a way out if you've bought cars as an "investment".rubystone said:
From what I recall I think he said the engine still needed mapping properly. I don't recall him saying it was a genuine GT2 engine though. Is that a fact? I know that the original engine is (was?) in Dave Dennett's K3 copy and the owner was offered a chance to reunite the two with no cash changing hands...he rejected that deal...
Reading the rennlist thread now, to save you the trouble UV said:"As I understanding it, RC (+ another) now owns the technology for the screw-in liners/heads. He has run these engines before, but we have changed the design including such gems as "Triple Silver Plated" sealing rings and other new features that are proprietary. RC runs the same Plenums/ITB on his car.
The engine is basically an evolution of the 993 GT2 Evo, but its the detail that's going to make the difference. I'm heading up to see the engine build once the heads/liners have arrived."
UV took me for a drive in that car about 9 years ago when I had my own 964 turbo. He had spent a fortune with the so called "Ninemeister" and had just fitted a huge custom intercooler. Ninemeister claimed is was running over 500bhp (which was a lie as it turned out) and it was a bit of handful then, can't imagine what it is like now.
I think for what it is, and the amount of time, money and love that went into it that that is a bargain.
I think for what it is, and the amount of time, money and love that went into it that that is a bargain.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff