Discussion
I've been browsing around for a while for one of these & they seem great value for money. Came across this one today & seems incredible value or am I missing something obvious?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Almost tempted.....
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Almost tempted.....
I own both a new Cayenne e-hybrid and the latest Panamera 4e hybrid and can tell you they drive totally different.The Cayenne drives like a well sorted high SUV and the Panamera drives like an extremely well sorted long low sports saloon. Both achieve their intended briefs admirably and dynamically totally superior to all their peers as long as a soft wallowy ride is not a priority.
jonny996 said:
Lovely looking car but I have always wondered what do these give you that a Cayenne doesn't?
Drive them back to back. As much as I don't want to rubbish a Cayenne, because its a personal thing, you simply cannot compare them in any imaginable way. I found the Cayenne to feel low rent in comparison (for disclosure this was a GTS) compared to my 4S. The Panamera drives like a car and has a much more driver focussed experience. The Pan is in a different league for build and materials, fit and feel.That said I am clearly biased, I would never turn down a Cayenne but if I had both on the drive I know one would get used and the other not.
As for the VFM, well, in all my years of flipping cars for getting bored and wanting something else, I genuinely cannot think of anything I would consider getting out of the Panamera for - one down side, you have to plan ahead if booking hotels etc as parking is near impossible in multistories. When people say they are big, they mean they are huge. Too big to even get on the car train in France and so wide you have to go onto the coach carriages on the tunnel. Brunel would approve of the heavy engineering and scale.
I cannot go on enough about just how much enjoyment I have from the car, its a marmite car but I love the looks and as a place to be in and drive it really is superb (Yachting pack - yes, its a thing, makes it very nice and light inside). Not a turbo but the grip and dynamics on offer in a car so big beggars belief it also returns stupid levels of MPG, positively frugal.
That was a single trip from France so most of the speed covered was at autoroute speeds, the full trip MPG for close to 1500 miles came out at 31.
And said Yachting pack...
George Smiley said:
Drive them back to back. As much as I don't want to rubbish a Cayenne, because its a personal thing, you simply cannot compare them in any imaginable way. I found the Cayenne to feel low rent in comparison (for disclosure this was a GTS) compared to my 4S. The Panamera drives like a car and has a much more driver focussed experience. The Pan is in a different league for build and materials, fit and feel.
That said I am clearly biased, I would never turn down a Cayenne but if I had both on the drive I know one would get used and the other not.
As for the VFM, well, in all my years of flipping cars for getting bored and wanting something else, I genuinely cannot think of anything I would consider getting out of the Panamera for - one down side, you have to plan ahead if booking hotels etc as parking is near impossible in multistories. When people say they are big, they mean they are huge. Too big to even get on the car train in France and so wide you have to go onto the coach carriages on the tunnel. Brunel would approve of the heavy engineering and scale.
I cannot go on enough about just how much enjoyment I have from the car, its a marmite car but I love the looks and as a place to be in and drive it really is superb (Yachting pack - yes, its a thing, makes it very nice and light inside). Not a turbo but the grip and dynamics on offer in a car so big beggars belief it also returns stupid levels of MPG, positively frugal.
That was a single trip from France so most of the speed covered was at autoroute speeds, the full trip MPG for close to 1500 miles came out at 31.
And said Yachting pack...
^ Wot he said. That said I am clearly biased, I would never turn down a Cayenne but if I had both on the drive I know one would get used and the other not.
As for the VFM, well, in all my years of flipping cars for getting bored and wanting something else, I genuinely cannot think of anything I would consider getting out of the Panamera for - one down side, you have to plan ahead if booking hotels etc as parking is near impossible in multistories. When people say they are big, they mean they are huge. Too big to even get on the car train in France and so wide you have to go onto the coach carriages on the tunnel. Brunel would approve of the heavy engineering and scale.
I cannot go on enough about just how much enjoyment I have from the car, its a marmite car but I love the looks and as a place to be in and drive it really is superb (Yachting pack - yes, its a thing, makes it very nice and light inside). Not a turbo but the grip and dynamics on offer in a car so big beggars belief it also returns stupid levels of MPG, positively frugal.
That was a single trip from France so most of the speed covered was at autoroute speeds, the full trip MPG for close to 1500 miles came out at 31.
And said Yachting pack...
I have the petrol Panamera S. I drive between London and North Italy and back at least once a month in complete comfort.
It is simply the most capable sports four/five door I've ever had. 0-60 in four and half seconds, seriously efficient brakes, GT level of comfort in the cabin, excellent ergonomics, not overly thirsty if you watch the lead foot and yet perfectly capable of hooning in the hills or on the autobahn.
I'm not swapping it for anything.
Peter
I'll pitch in and agree with everything that's been said about the Panamera. I've had my GTS 2015 model for 2 months now and absolutely love it. Superb to drive to the extent that for the first time ever, I took it for a solo cross country blast last Friday before 6am just for the hell of it. I've had many nice cars but never done that before.
They're not small for sure but don't take long to get used to. Fabulous cars.
They're not small for sure but don't take long to get used to. Fabulous cars.
Pistom said:
Wow. You certainly get a lot of car for your money. Are £30K cars a lot of big bills waiting to be paid?
The sump on my gearbox crapped itself earlier this year - 2300 Euro bill including the recovery truck, but the rest remains well screwed together. Try running a Range Rover if that seems steep: three gearboxes in four years for starters
Peter
Pistom said:
Wow. You certainly get a lot of car for your money. Are £30K cars a lot of big bills waiting to be paid?
No more no less than any other car. If you follow the OBC/Porsche service schedule its 2 years so becomes cheap in that regard.Tyres aren't too bad either, the 20s are running around the 210 mark each.
As with any expensive car, things can bite. I bought mine from an OPC and I'd do the same time again. You pay more but you get the approved used treatment.
Get as big a spec as you can get, if you can get the bermester stereo it really is a rather nice set up.
I have considered a Panny as a family car but a few things put me off:
- It's freaking huge. Wouldn't want to be driving it in the Rotherhithe tunnel (which I frequently use) or parking it in any car park.
- The interior space isn't great for a car of that size, especially the boot.
- It's too quiet, and the one I drove was a 4S with PSE.
The drive and quality were fantastic though, definitely superior to an F10 M5 but then it is quite a bit more expensive.
- It's freaking huge. Wouldn't want to be driving it in the Rotherhithe tunnel (which I frequently use) or parking it in any car park.
- The interior space isn't great for a car of that size, especially the boot.
- It's too quiet, and the one I drove was a 4S with PSE.
The drive and quality were fantastic though, definitely superior to an F10 M5 but then it is quite a bit more expensive.
Huge only just starts to describe it but I drive daily and my only consideration now is multistories. Fortunately as I am disabled once in parking lots the space isn't an issue but sometimes getting out of the car park is!
I was down in Wells the other week at the bus station car park. Fortunately was leaving at night so could reverse down the entry road then go through the now empty spaces otherwise would never have made the turn at the top.
I was down in Wells the other week at the bus station car park. Fortunately was leaving at night so could reverse down the entry road then go through the now empty spaces otherwise would never have made the turn at the top.
Shaoxter said:
I have considered a Panny as a family car but a few things put me off:
- It's freaking huge. Wouldn't want to be driving it in the Rotherhithe tunnel (which I frequently use) or parking it in any car park.
- The interior space isn't great for a car of that size, especially the boot.
- It's too quiet, and the one I drove was a 4S with PSE.
The drive and quality were fantastic though, definitely superior to an F10 M5 but then it is quite a bit more expensive.
Ours is the family car and the best I've had by a mile. Interior space is fantastic in terms of front seats and back seats. The boot is fine for any normal stuff and I've got roof bars/box for the holidays. Also ours has what I imagine to be a very rare option of a tow bar, so have a bike rack. - It's freaking huge. Wouldn't want to be driving it in the Rotherhithe tunnel (which I frequently use) or parking it in any car park.
- The interior space isn't great for a car of that size, especially the boot.
- It's too quiet, and the one I drove was a 4S with PSE.
The drive and quality were fantastic though, definitely superior to an F10 M5 but then it is quite a bit more expensive.
The noise on the GTS with sports exhaust is superb, way better than my old C63 Coupe
They are big but I really don't think as big as people are making out, you just need to be a little bit more cautious at times and "breath in"!
Is the sports exhaust different on the GTS to the 4S? I drove a GTS recently with the noisy button on and thought it hilarious on the overrun. I'm looking at getting into a panny and was planning on a well specced 4S but might need to up thee budgert now 
Also that turbo/GTS spoiler is a cool bit of engineering
Also that turbo/GTS spoiler is a cool bit of engineeringI ran a 2012 GTS for 2 years/20k miles after two years in a 2013 E63 saloon (the 5.5 twin turbo version) and recently traded it in for a 2014 Panamera Turbo S. After the E63, the Panamera is definitely a league or two above any of the German mid tier German saloons and while not as obviously luxurious as a 7 series, S class or A8, the Panamera feels more special and probably of a higher quality than all those cars. Not necessarily up to Bentley levels but you get the idea. Having driven cars like the S8 Plus, 750i, S class AMGs, they all feel like straight line hot rods compared to the Porsche and lose composure when corners appear and handling balance becomes important.
What did I love about the GTS?
The styling on the first gen Panameras with the GTS bodykit (optional on other models, probably standard on the Turbo S) looks fantastic in my eyes and possibly better than the gen 2 equivalents. As well as the higher rev limit, the black accenting, wider track, alcantara, lower suspension etc on the GTS looks superb. The throttle response is everything you'd hope for and the engine is a masterpiece. To me it felt like a downsized version of the 6.2 AMG engine, which is high praise indeed. The noise and willingness to rev, which it needs to extract any kind of performance, is amazing. I had the BOSE ststem in my GTS and thought it was a great option to have.
I was always amazed at how economical the car was for a 4.8 litre high revving unit. Getting over 30mpg at 80mph average speeds in France was a surprise an even driving it hard around the UK, it always used less fuel than I thought. Coupled with the 100 litre tank, the car had amazing range; range being more important to me than the economy figure and cost of fill ups.
What did I not like about my GTS?
Bluntly, the unreliability of the thing. I had numerous suspension issues on mine, including having all bushes replaced under warranty to resolve a creaking noise over speed bumps. Mine developed a strange knocking sound occasionally when approaching full lock. I managed to replicate this in front of one of the mechanics at my local OPC and after 4 days of investigation, they still couldn't work out what it was and said it would probably need to get worse before they'd be able to identify the cause. Having had other issues with the car, such as the A/C requiring full replacement, an intermittent electrical fault meaning the car wouldn't start if the engine was running hot (say after a long ride through traffic), the suspension warning coming onto the display and disabling sports mode at times and a strange graunching noise when I hit the sport button on occasion, I had had enough and with a warranty renewal on the horizon, I decided to trade it in. Maybe it had had a hard life before I got it but I lost faith in the car. Mine also seemed to develop random rattles and was prone to speaker covers loosening themselves. Mine was also quite a basic spec, so no DAB, cameras, rear A/C controls etc although that didn't detract from the enjoyment of driving the car.
What do I love about the Turbo S?
Mine is black on black on black wheels and the first owner specced it to the hilt, so it has blinds everywhere, Burmester (needs to be experienced) carbon pack, the PCCBs were standard on the gen 2 Turbo S but not the gen 1 version in the link above), ventilated and heated seats etc etc. The previous owner went so far as to spec a leather trimmed rear view mirror and as far as I am aware the only options mine doesn't have are adaptive cruise, blind spot/lane departure stuff, which I had on my old GTS and quite liked. My car has TVs in the back and the front passenger seat position can be controlled from the rear too, which gives you an idea of the money that must have been thrown at it when it was new. I can't imagine what it would be like to be chauffeured in a Turbo S but might find out this week if I can find an independent driver to drive me and a mate to Salon Prive.
Anyway, the Turbo S rides more softly than the GTS in any setting and is perhaps more of a luxury express than being quite as driver focussed as the GTS. That cuts both ways. The Turbo S feels less raw and has a completely different character. There is no way the performance can be legally enjoyed in the U.K., whereas in the GTS, it could be wrung out in 2nd and 3rd gear without ever getting into licence losing territory. The 430bhp (around 200bhp per ton) struck a happy balance and the car never felt underpowered and it was easy to enjoy the revs. This is not the case in the Turbo S, which has 562bhp and 590 lbs/ft of torque (gen 1 was only slightly less). The way the Turbo S accelerates is quite extraordinary and takes some getting used to. It's not dramatic in the way it deploys performance but for some reason, it feels far more accelerative even than my E63 did and has no issues with traction.
What do I not like about my Turbo S?
This is my first car with PCCBs and I shudder at the cost of replacement should one of the discs get scored. I prefer the feel of steel discs personally, even though the performance of the PCCBs is outstanding. I do more long trips than short ones and if I haven't touched the brakes much on a motorway, they can bite a bit when used again.
Overall, I've driven the Hybrid (didn't like the power train and it felt terribly underpowered) and the gen 2 diesel (still felt like a Porsche but I don't like Diesel engines and it needs 4wd) and think the GTS is probably the pick of the bunch if you enjoy driving. The turbo models tend to be better specced however and are a different kettle of fish.
I don't think a bad Panamera exists per se but it's worth spending some time looking at the models to decide what spec would suit you best.
Hope this helps!
What did I love about the GTS?
The styling on the first gen Panameras with the GTS bodykit (optional on other models, probably standard on the Turbo S) looks fantastic in my eyes and possibly better than the gen 2 equivalents. As well as the higher rev limit, the black accenting, wider track, alcantara, lower suspension etc on the GTS looks superb. The throttle response is everything you'd hope for and the engine is a masterpiece. To me it felt like a downsized version of the 6.2 AMG engine, which is high praise indeed. The noise and willingness to rev, which it needs to extract any kind of performance, is amazing. I had the BOSE ststem in my GTS and thought it was a great option to have.
I was always amazed at how economical the car was for a 4.8 litre high revving unit. Getting over 30mpg at 80mph average speeds in France was a surprise an even driving it hard around the UK, it always used less fuel than I thought. Coupled with the 100 litre tank, the car had amazing range; range being more important to me than the economy figure and cost of fill ups.
What did I not like about my GTS?
Bluntly, the unreliability of the thing. I had numerous suspension issues on mine, including having all bushes replaced under warranty to resolve a creaking noise over speed bumps. Mine developed a strange knocking sound occasionally when approaching full lock. I managed to replicate this in front of one of the mechanics at my local OPC and after 4 days of investigation, they still couldn't work out what it was and said it would probably need to get worse before they'd be able to identify the cause. Having had other issues with the car, such as the A/C requiring full replacement, an intermittent electrical fault meaning the car wouldn't start if the engine was running hot (say after a long ride through traffic), the suspension warning coming onto the display and disabling sports mode at times and a strange graunching noise when I hit the sport button on occasion, I had had enough and with a warranty renewal on the horizon, I decided to trade it in. Maybe it had had a hard life before I got it but I lost faith in the car. Mine also seemed to develop random rattles and was prone to speaker covers loosening themselves. Mine was also quite a basic spec, so no DAB, cameras, rear A/C controls etc although that didn't detract from the enjoyment of driving the car.
What do I love about the Turbo S?
Mine is black on black on black wheels and the first owner specced it to the hilt, so it has blinds everywhere, Burmester (needs to be experienced) carbon pack, the PCCBs were standard on the gen 2 Turbo S but not the gen 1 version in the link above), ventilated and heated seats etc etc. The previous owner went so far as to spec a leather trimmed rear view mirror and as far as I am aware the only options mine doesn't have are adaptive cruise, blind spot/lane departure stuff, which I had on my old GTS and quite liked. My car has TVs in the back and the front passenger seat position can be controlled from the rear too, which gives you an idea of the money that must have been thrown at it when it was new. I can't imagine what it would be like to be chauffeured in a Turbo S but might find out this week if I can find an independent driver to drive me and a mate to Salon Prive.
Anyway, the Turbo S rides more softly than the GTS in any setting and is perhaps more of a luxury express than being quite as driver focussed as the GTS. That cuts both ways. The Turbo S feels less raw and has a completely different character. There is no way the performance can be legally enjoyed in the U.K., whereas in the GTS, it could be wrung out in 2nd and 3rd gear without ever getting into licence losing territory. The 430bhp (around 200bhp per ton) struck a happy balance and the car never felt underpowered and it was easy to enjoy the revs. This is not the case in the Turbo S, which has 562bhp and 590 lbs/ft of torque (gen 1 was only slightly less). The way the Turbo S accelerates is quite extraordinary and takes some getting used to. It's not dramatic in the way it deploys performance but for some reason, it feels far more accelerative even than my E63 did and has no issues with traction.
What do I not like about my Turbo S?
This is my first car with PCCBs and I shudder at the cost of replacement should one of the discs get scored. I prefer the feel of steel discs personally, even though the performance of the PCCBs is outstanding. I do more long trips than short ones and if I haven't touched the brakes much on a motorway, they can bite a bit when used again.
Overall, I've driven the Hybrid (didn't like the power train and it felt terribly underpowered) and the gen 2 diesel (still felt like a Porsche but I don't like Diesel engines and it needs 4wd) and think the GTS is probably the pick of the bunch if you enjoy driving. The turbo models tend to be better specced however and are a different kettle of fish.
I don't think a bad Panamera exists per se but it's worth spending some time looking at the models to decide what spec would suit you best.
Hope this helps!
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff