Gen 2 Cayman white smoke on start up? Is this of concern?
Discussion
I've a 2009 2.9 Cayman. I noticed a cloud of white smoke occasionally on start up. It happened today after running 30 mins then stopped for 30 mins before start again. Must have lasted 10 seconds. It was quite a wack of smoke. Looked a bit strange in the street.
I've read about this smoking and see mixed thoughts. From the "they all do that" to various threads on rennlist saying it isn't normal on the non DFI 2.9 engines and that early 09 Caymans had some issues. I've read some stuff about valve guide seals but it was too complicated to me.
What issues did the early 2009 2.9 Cayman have then? Starting to feel a little concerned after seeing this smoke! I read of bore scoring but understood that didn't affect the gen 2 2.9
I've read about this smoking and see mixed thoughts. From the "they all do that" to various threads on rennlist saying it isn't normal on the non DFI 2.9 engines and that early 09 Caymans had some issues. I've read some stuff about valve guide seals but it was too complicated to me.
What issues did the early 2009 2.9 Cayman have then? Starting to feel a little concerned after seeing this smoke! I read of bore scoring but understood that didn't affect the gen 2 2.9
Blimey. The engine was up to temp when I shut down prior. I had given it a decent run for half an hour, no where near too hard. Changing at 4.5k for a few mins and spent 5 mins doing sedate driving after before stopping. It was only level ground and didn't touch throttle prior to shut down, it was after the half hour/ 40 mins off it did this on start so engine would've been at temp still. I think I've seen it do it before but I can't remember if I'd moved it or not prior.
I've just experimented. It had been driven for 30 mins and came home. It's sat for 40 mins and I tried starting it and it's just done it again. White smoke on start that dies down. It still emitted from the exhaust but not a huge amount after the initial cloud for 23 seconds. It lasted a couple of mins this morning on its cold start. It has sports exhausts on and seemed to come from the right one (as looking at them). I'll try again later to double check but so far it's done it throughout the day.
Edited by Buggyjam on Saturday 16th September 12:31
Buggyjam said:
I've just experimented. It had been driven for 30 mins and came home. It's sat for 40 mins and I tried starting it and it's just done it again. White smoke on start that dies down. It still emitted from the exhaust but not a huge amount after the initial cloud for 23 seconds. It has sports exhausts on and seemed to come from the right one (as looking at them). I'll try again later to double check
yep not right if it does it all the time, for that long , I have not seen either of my cars do it for ages and when it does it's only a 2 or 3 second puff normally when I have stopped on a angle.I've just taken it for a run again and letting it sit to see if it'll do it a 3rd time. I've parked it the other way around just to isolate any inclines. before on perfectly level ground when warm. I'd be gutted if it has a problem as just bought it.
. Doesn't help there seems to be "normal" Porsche smoke and buried within that there's definitely not normal Porsche smoke depending on model, engine and year. :-((
. Doesn't help there seems to be "normal" Porsche smoke and buried within that there's definitely not normal Porsche smoke depending on model, engine and year. :-((
Edited by Buggyjam on Saturday 16th September 12:30
Check videos on YouTube which will give you an indication on what might be considered excessive. Not sure I can link to them on the current rules?
But if you check the comments section there are suggestions there on what the issue could be.
Beyond that you may need some sort of diagnostic check to identify whether a part is failing/failed.
But if you check the comments section there are suggestions there on what the issue could be.
Beyond that you may need some sort of diagnostic check to identify whether a part is failing/failed.
I'm not sure if it helps, but my 2.9 Gen2 Cayman used to smoke regularly on start up. Hot, cold on a slope on the flat always at different times and circumstances. Sometimes a puff, sometimes a cloud (normally a cloud when people were around or so it felt!)
It was my first Porsche and I was paranoid, it had independent warranty and went into OPC network and independent specialists. It had the the engine checked the AOS and some other parts replaced under warranty and still after all that it did the same.
In the end I lived with it as it ran fine and I couldn't find a fault with it. Did approx. 10k miles with no issues. PX'd it to an OPC and the guy who bought it from them ran it for a further two years with AFAIK no troubles before he px'd back for a new car.
For peace of mind I would definitely get it thoroughly checked over, but don't be surprised if they can't find anything and you may have to live with 'they all do it sir'.
It was my first Porsche and I was paranoid, it had independent warranty and went into OPC network and independent specialists. It had the the engine checked the AOS and some other parts replaced under warranty and still after all that it did the same.
In the end I lived with it as it ran fine and I couldn't find a fault with it. Did approx. 10k miles with no issues. PX'd it to an OPC and the guy who bought it from them ran it for a further two years with AFAIK no troubles before he px'd back for a new car.
For peace of mind I would definitely get it thoroughly checked over, but don't be surprised if they can't find anything and you may have to live with 'they all do it sir'.
Mine does this every now and then.
Weird. My 2.5 Boxster said in the manual to let it idle for 10-15 secs or something before shutting down. Did it through habit and never had any smoke.
Seems to be a higher incidence of "electing a new Pope" style startups when I immediately shut down. Not scientific.
Weird. My 2.5 Boxster said in the manual to let it idle for 10-15 secs or something before shutting down. Did it through habit and never had any smoke.
Seems to be a higher incidence of "electing a new Pope" style startups when I immediately shut down. Not scientific.
Hi delays and shiverman. Good to hear that in some regards. Can I ask did your cars do it when you started after they were still warm? After an initial "New pope" plume (that so describes the initial cloud), looking in the mirror I thought that was it, but it was only after I got out the car and timed it I realised it was still pumping smoke out for about 30 seconds from the time it started in some instances. Mm. As per advice in the first instance, I'm going to speak to the guys at my indi.
SV_WDC said:
Check videos on YouTube which will give you an indication on what might be considered excessive. Not sure I can link to them on the current rules?
But if you check the comments section there are suggestions there on what the issue could be.
Beyond that you may need some sort of diagnostic check to identify whether a part is failing/failed.
Thanks SV. I've looked at those videos and they do seem remarkably the same as mine. I see the comments mention that the smoke in those videos is not normal and cite two things on the 2.9 non dfi engine. Some dodgy sizing of early pistons/rings (?) or valve guide seal issues. All sounds pretty full on :-(But if you check the comments section there are suggestions there on what the issue could be.
Beyond that you may need some sort of diagnostic check to identify whether a part is failing/failed.
I used to have a 2009 2.9 Cayman that went through phases of smoking on startup (and sometimes a massive cloud of the stuff). Weeks could go by and it wouldn’t do it, then it’d do it on cold start up, on returning to the car an hour or so after driving it and often when parked on a hill such that the one side was higher than the other. Did around 30K miles in it and never had to top up the oil between changes, in fact the level barely ever moved.
I was a bit paranoid about it at first but just got used to it after a while and found the shocked looks of people as it engulfed them in smoke in car parks amusing in the end!
Got a 2011 Cayman S now I’ve done 10K miles in and it’s never once generated a puff of smoke. I guess some do it and some don’t!
I was a bit paranoid about it at first but just got used to it after a while and found the shocked looks of people as it engulfed them in smoke in car parks amusing in the end!
Got a 2011 Cayman S now I’ve done 10K miles in and it’s never once generated a puff of smoke. I guess some do it and some don’t!
Buggyjam said:
Hi delays and shiverman. Good to hear that in some regards. Can I ask did your cars do it when you started after they were still warm? After an initial "New pope" plume (that so describes the initial cloud), looking in the mirror I thought that was it, but it was only after I got out the car and timed it I realised it was still pumping smoke out for about 30 seconds from the time it started in some instances. Mm. As per advice in the first instance, I'm going to speak to the guys at my indi.
Hi Buggyjam - sorry to have left you waiting so long for an answer! I've not analysed the issue to that level of detail but from memory, I've only noticed it after the car has been sat for a while (the shortest time was after a lunch) - so it's always cooled to some degree, if only minimally.
Sometimes it's been quite visually arresting - I remember once I parked on a slope after a long drive on a hot day, returning to the car the next morning, such was the plume of smoke I was severely concerned. Alas, it's a feature of the flat engine that you are more likely to get some oil settling in the cylinders, especially (but not limited to) parking on slopes.
Lots of smoke regularly can be a symptom your Air Oil Separator is on its way out (a previous poster has mentioned this as a fix from an OPC). Check with your indie and see their point of view but, whilst concerning initially, a puff now and then on startup is normal behaviour.
Buggyjam said:
Hi delays and shiverman. Good to hear that in some regards. Can I ask did your cars do it when you started after they were still warm? After an initial "New pope" plume (that so describes the initial cloud), looking in the mirror I thought that was it, but it was only after I got out the car and timed it I realised it was still pumping smoke out for about 30 seconds from the time it started in some instances. Mm. As per advice in the first instance, I'm going to speak to the guys at my indi.
Hi Buggyjam. My car would sometimes smoke while it was still warm, but normally it would have part cooled for 30-60 minutes. TBH I don't recall ever seeing smoke continuing to pump out for 30 seconds after start up it was normally the plume of smoke and then the residue as it cleared its chest. AOS can cause large amounts of smoke, but like I said previously I would get it checked over for peace of mind. Keep us all posted and hope it's nothing to worry about.Early 2.9's had Pistons with no oil scraper relief bores; this was cited as a possible cause initially. After more occurrences Porsche issued a DME update; essentially remapping the engine control which reduced the likelihood of it occurring (it opens the throttle when the motor is stopped effectively dumping any intake vacuum which had a tendency to pull oil from the breather system).
Check it's had the update
PM me the VIN if you like and I can check?
Check it's had the update
PM me the VIN if you like and I can check?
Edited by Pope on Sunday 17th September 14:32
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